QQ, lots of action multiway.

[Bodhi]

Party Poker (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 and the Button are both very donkish, but the BB is a rock.

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Button calls, <font color="red">Hero raises, BB 3-bets,</font> UTG+2 calls, Button calls, <font color="red">Hero caps</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Flop:(16sb) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, Button calls.

Turn:(10BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="red">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, <font color="red">Button raises, Hero 3-bets</font>, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Button calls(All-In).

River:(20bb) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 1 all-in)</font>
<font color="red">Hero bets, UTG+2 raises</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 23BB.

[brettbrettr]

Please explain every bet. (I'm not kidding.)

[baronzeus]

Ugh...looks like UTG snagged a set of 4s on the river. Nothing you can do here, but maybe you put too much in the turn.

[Bodhi]

Flop bet is standard.

Turn bet, I still could have the best hand.

Turn 3-bet, the donk was out of money and will raise with almost anything. Also, if he does have me beat, i want to get more money in the pot from the players who aren't broke yet.

River, same as before.

[brettbrettr]

I don't understand your view of UTG +2 and the river bet.

[Bodhi]

I'm hoping he'll call with a worse hand. What you really mean is that you don't agree that it's a place to value bet.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm hoping he'll call with a worse hand. What you really mean is that you don't agree that it's a place to value bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
Button came alive on a second 2 and UTG+2 came alive on a 4. You're probably behind to UTG+2's full house and button's set. Call down after button comes alive, and if you've got them read as passive enough I actually wouldn't lose sleep if I folded on the spot.

[Bodhi]

You give these guys way too much credit.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
You give these guys way too much credit.

[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe, but I'm not drawing to two outs.

[brettbrettr]

nh.

[Bodhi]

Instead of high-5ing each other maybe you could fill me on how you think the hand should be played...

[Evigt_Drabbad]

fold on turn to raise

[Bodhi]

But did you notice that he's all in? If I have the 2nd best hand then I should continue, no?

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
But did you notice that he's all in? If I have the 2nd best hand then I should continue, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it. You are paying almost two BB hoping to make a side pot that doesn't even exist yet. And you could be right about having the second best hand, but wrong about which player has the best one. Now you are aggressively building someone else's side pot.

Fold to the turn raise after your bet gets two callers. If the other two had folded and you want to put button all-in, that's fine.

[Bodhi]

I'm not going to say what the specific results were, but I was ahead until the river. The button did not have me beat. I think it's terrible that people have advised folding in a 20 bet pot. What's worse is that you guys are getting bluffed way too often in large pots if you play that way.

[Bodhi]

In white:

<font color="white">
Button has TT
UTG+2 has Ah3h </font>

[brettbrettr]

whats the piont of the river bet?

[Bodhi]

I already explained that it's in hope that I had the 2nd best hand and still have utg+2 beat.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I already explained that it's in hope that I had the 2nd best hand and still have utg+2 beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

given the way he's played the hand you expect him to call?

[Bodhi]

Calling is all he's done so far, so yes.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Calling is all he's done so far, so yes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which could easily indicate a better hand than yours. The play on this river, IMO, is to check-call. You're clearly calling a raise and its not so clear your ahead. When I first read the hand, gievn your desc's, it all made sense to me. It seemed possibly thin, but they were your reads so I thought "fine." The river bet, however, made no sense to me.
In addition to being behind UTG could easily bluff raise this river and that too is uncomfortable seeing as though you have to call.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not going to say what the specific results were, but I was ahead until the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You don't really know this, but to your credit you and button might have made BB fold a king. But it's quite a parlay to hope that all three don't have you beat after calling on such a dry flop, results notwithstanding.

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's terrible that people have advised folding in a 20 bet pot. What's worse is that you guys are getting bluffed way too often in large pots if you play that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I wanted to fold when it was 15BB, and when it would cost you at least 2 more BB to continue.

[shadow29]

micro discussion (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2854262&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1)

I don't think that micro missed anything, do y
all?

[Bodhi]

Someone mentioned that we might have got the BB to fold a K. I looked through the session's hand history and found this in the next hand's dialoge:

***** Hand History for Game 2352768762 *****
$2/$4 Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, July 12, 17:37:06 EDT 2005
Table Challenge you All (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 3: Farahnamy ( $0 )
Seat 5: hypn0t1c ( $37 )
Seat 2: GJV653 ( $130.50 )
Seat 10: pengaanda ( $93 )
Seat 4: megalopsuche ( $99.50 )
Seat 7: kpride83 ( $35.50 )
Seat 1: vol1976 ( $95 )
Seat 8: whit555 ( $130.25 )
Seat 9: DanD2c ( $118.50 )
hypn0t1c posts small blind [$1].
kpride83 posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to megalopsuche [ 9s Tc ]
Farahnamy has left the table.
hypn0t1c: i've paired my king with AK and lost all XXXXing 3 of them

---------------------

I suppose he must be a 2+2er

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
hypn0t1c: i've paired my king with AK and lost all XXXXing 3 of them

---------------------

I suppose he must be a 2+2er

[/ QUOTE ]

That is nuts. He should have raised the flop and turn then.

Note: your preflop cap scared him into check-calling his king, which is another reason you can't be sure they all don't have one.