54s- This was bad... right?

[flair1239]

Pty 5/10

Hero 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif in MP3

The two limpers are about par for the course. A little loose fairly passive, but not wimpy.

The BB is truly awful in a wonderful sort of way. Has the curiosity of a young cild as evidenced by his willingness to call down multiple size bets in multi-way pots, just to be sure that his A4o is no good.

Hero is a OK player who tries hard to play well and is probably on some form of mild tilt brought on by being on the bottom end of a 3-day 205BB downswing. Hero feels as if everyone is out to get him and is starting to take hands personally and oh by the way, has been card dead for the last couple hundred hands.

UTG2 limps, MP2 limps, Hero limps, BB checks.

Flop: (4-players) (4.4SB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB Checks, UTG2 bets, MP2 calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG2 calls, MP2 calls

Turn (4players)(6BB) J /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB Bets, UTG2 Folds, MP2 Raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, UTg2 calls, Hero calls....

River: Blank

BB bets, UTG2 raises, Hero calls...

[Paxosmotic]

You've got BB and MP2 coming to life on the flush card on the turn, facing you with two bets. I think that's about the best chance you've got to get out of the way.

Stop tilting, tilting makes baby jesus cry. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[SeaEagle]

I like your turn 3-bet. You're ahead most of the time, even with a bet and raise in front of you.

I think you can safely fold the river though.

[Paxosmotic]

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I like your turn 3-bet. You're ahead most of the time, even with a bet and raise in front of you.

I think you can safely fold the river though.

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How does a blank falling on the river affect how often hero is good here? He's either dead before it or he's still good. I think you either have to fold this turn or see it through to a showdown. Facing two cold on the turn when you've made a weak flush and another player has come to life seems to be the point of no return here.

[BWebb]

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I like your turn 3-bet. You're ahead most of the time, even with a bet and raise in front of you.

I think you can safely fold the river though.

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How does a blank falling on the river affect how often hero is good here? He's either dead before it or he's still good.

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Not true. The fact that the turn got capped and the river went bet, raise makes it obvious he is not good here.

P.S. Turn off the computer and step away for a little while. You shouldn't be playing if you are making preflop calls like this.

[flair1239]

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I like your turn 3-bet. You're ahead most of the time, even with a bet and raise in front of you.

I think you can safely fold the river though.

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How does a blank falling on the river affect how often hero is good here? He's either dead before it or he's still good.

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Not true. The fact that the turn got capped and the river went bet, raise makes it obvious he is not good here.

P.S. Turn off the computer and step away for a little while. You shouldn't be playing if you are making preflop calls like this.

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Interesting, I thought the PF call was one of the least debateable parts of this hand.

[Genix]

It might have been a mediocre hand to call with pre flop but his position wasn't bad and he hit two nice draws on the flop. The betting on the flop was good and so was the turn. The bet and raise on the river scare me however. I would still call though.

[Paxosmotic]

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Interesting, I thought the PF call was one of the least debateable parts of this hand.

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I think if the two players left to act are passive then you should be good. I think what BWebb is saying is you're a little far off the button for this hand. I would tend to agree unless the players left to act were passive. However, I don't think you're going to get in too much trouble with 54s like you might with a hand like K8s (which you'd have to pay off if you flopped top pair). With 54s the flop is either going to hit you or it's not, no major loss, but you're probably taking the worst of it here.

[BWebb]

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Interesting, I thought the PF call was one of the least debateable parts of this hand.

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I think if the two players left to act are passive then you should be good. I think what BWebb is saying is you're a little far off the button for this hand. I would tend to agree unless the players left to act were passive. However, I don't think you're going to get in too much trouble with 54s like you might with a hand like K8s (which you'd have to pay off if you flopped top pair). With 54s the flop is either going to hit you or it's not, no major loss, but you're probably taking the worst of it here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. Also, the fact that the SB is $2 in a 5/10 typically makes them less likely to complete.

[bobbyi]

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Interesting, I thought the PF call was one of the least debateable parts of this hand.

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I really don't like the pf call. Every time I've played with you, you seemed very tight so I am surprised by the call.

[sy_or_bust]

You must decide whether to continue or bail on the turn when everyone wakes up ahead of you. If you 3-bet here, as you may have realized, you typically commit to showdown.

The problem is that your hand looks very weak at this juncture. First, if you are outflushed you are drawing dead and will pay off dearly. If not, you likely have to dodge a paired board. And, almost always, you are dead to a 4-flush board. Without any made straights on the turn and lots of random action, you can be reasonably sure you are facing either a better flush or set. J9 will happen occassionally, as will QJ+ with the flush redraw, but I don't envy your chances.

1) decent possibility of drawing dead
2) redraws: 7 scary flush cards + 12 pair cards realistically have 12-14 outs against you.
3) two players, including a LP, suddenly wake on the turn.

Can you fold the turn? I think so.

Oh yeah: UTG+2 is the real Hero, for managing to fold the turn and raise the river. Definitely +EV.

[Paxosmotic]

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Oh yeah: UTG+2 is the real Hero, for managing to fold the turn and raise the river. Definitely +EV.

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That's a play I usually like to do with suited one gaps to save some money. I generally fold preflop then cap the river if I hit my flush or straight. My BB/100 with 86s is 4,008.