Live 3/6 Hand

[Brice]

This was a hand I played at last night at a live 3/6 Hold em game at the Gold Strike in Tunica. The table was pretty loose with a couple of conservative players. I limped in from late position with J10o. The flop came J-J-x rainbow. The turn and river brought two under cards with no straight or flush possibilities.

The player to my immediate right was a loose passive player. Three or four players took the flop. A player in early position bet, which was called by the player to my right and myself. On the turn, the player who bet the flopped checked. The player to my right bet, which I called and the player who checked folded. We were heads up.

The river came and the player to my right bet. What is my action?

[Bradyams]

It would help to know your exact hole cards, and all of the exact cards on the board.

Given that we only know that you have three jacks, you need to raise somewhere. I'd usually like to do it on the flop (depending on the flop texture).

EDIT - It's also nice to know the pre-flop action as well.

[tiltaholic]

i think i'd fold preflop.

but otherwise i'd raise the flop.

[Brice]

My hole cards were J10o.

I don't remember what was on the board. I think the flop was J-J-7. The turn was a two and the river was maybe a five.

I think four players took the flop including the BB. The pot after the flop was $12. The players who took the flop were all loose passive.

[Bradyams]

The suits of the cards are just as important as the card rank.

[DeathDonkey]

Not really in this case. Raise the flop! 3 of a kind is a good hand.

-DeathDonkey

[imported_The Vibesman]

Raise the river. It'd be a crime to call flopped top trips the whole way down w/o raising.
You could also raise the flop, or turn, depending on preference.

[tor]

I say you're good to win this pot of 7BB about 20% of the time. But I think you'll be re-raised too many times if you bet because of a higher kicker or a filled up full house. This makes a call your best option here.

[Niediam]

You should get up from the table. Go to your local bookstore and then buy Small Stakes Hold'em (or possibly Getting Started In Hold'em if SSH looks a bit complicated to you).

I'm not trying to be mean but super passive playing is going to cost you a ton of money in the long run and you simply will not be a winning player.

[davelin]

Not raising at some point in this hand is criminal.

[Trip8s]

Great example of why J10o should go in muck preflop. Even when you great a great flop like JJ7, you're not going to get much action unless someone has something that will beat you. The only hands that are going to go far with you are J with a better kicker or a pocket pair that fills up. Jack with lower kicker certainly folded preflop. Lower two-pair is counterfeited by the 2 Jacks on the board. Muck J10o preflop.

[Niediam]

Winning players show a profit when they play JTo in LP.

[BatsShadow]

Grunching:

I think you should raise the flop with the two in ahead of you. Then bet out the turn.

At the very least, raise the turn.

If we let the action play out as you said it happened then you should definitely raise the river.

[BatsShadow]

In a live 3/6 game?

[Greg J]

Wow, there is some really bad advise from some of the newer players on this thread. I'm not trying to call any of you guys out -- you are just trying to get better, and correctly saying what you think (ie "Grunching"), which is good. I just wanted to point out to the original poster (OP).

To the OP: Just so you know, the preflop limp in LP with JTo is fine. Postflop, the more straightforward your opponents are, the more straightforward you should play. I think you should raise the flop for value, and if it's 3 bet to you, you should probably cap. Take command of this hand -- they are likely to call you. You can't win thier money if you don't get yr money in the middle.

Overall, you should try to be more aggressive.

[tiltaholic]

Hey Greg-

[ QUOTE ]
To the OP: Just so you know, the preflop limp in LP with JTo is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I vehemently disagree with this blanket statement, without more information provided about the circumstances of the hand.

Yes, JTo can and will show a profit when played correctly by player comfortable and proficient in postflop play...but I don't think it's always simply "playable in late position".

JTo and even QJo are marginal hands and are tricky against a loose passive field for new players and for that reason I advise a fold.

Now, since the OP wasn't really clear on the circumstances of the preflop action, its hard to comment, but since he mentioned 3-4 players saw the flop (including himself?) I am guessing the best preflop action was likely a raise, not a limp.

[tor]

I didn't base that so much of the fact it's in a live 3/6 game as based on the reads by the OP, considering they target the people themselves in the hand. Where the game is seems irrelevant when you have reads on individuals.

[tor]

BTW, I didn't think to look at this flop when posting in the dark. I totally agree with everyone else. RAISE!

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
based on the reads by the OP

[/ QUOTE ]

On the flop an unknown (no read given) bet and a "loose passive" player called. That's your argument that we might not have the best hand with trip jacks and a ten kicker? Loose passive players always call, that's what they do! Raise flop!

-DeathDonkey

[Greg J]

The OP gave me enough info that I felt comfortable with a gp 5 hand limp. He had 2 limpers and the blinds still to act in a loose table and he was in "LP".

Upon further reading, there are various pieces of info that are in strange places -- the post is not organized too well (he's a new guy).

As for a preflop raise... I can go along with it. But I perfer either of those options to a fold against typically loose 3/6 BM players.

[tor]

I was talking 'bout the river! /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Argh, I see the problem. I totally agree on the flop, but the OP was asking about the river and I didn't think to analyze the value of flop decisions, just what actions were made by other players.

So, yes, I totally agree that the flop should be bet, but I don't see why the river should be raised.

[Greg J]

Whoa, okay, upon rereading that hand, if there was only a single limper (not sure), the loose passive guy, Then a raise is preferable to isolate. I just saw he was not sure how many went to the flop. If he had 2 limpers I sand by my statement.

If not, then:
If the blinds will fold to a raise preflop raise it. If not, I fold or raise depending on how much they suck postflop.

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
Whoa, okay, upon rereading that hand, if there was only a single limper (not sure), the loose passive guy, Then a raise is preferable to isolate. I just saw he was not sure how many went to the flop. If he had 2 limpers I sand by my statement.

If not, then:
If the blinds will fold to a raise preflop raise it. If not, I fold or raise depending on how much they suck postflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think we're on the same page...

for some reason i hate JTo these days, so I felt the need to defend a potential pf fold. don't know why i got all uppity.

[Brice]

I would not consider myself a new player. I figured the JTo from a late position was questionable, but my read from the table was that I could get in against loose passive players. The organization of the hand is not that clear as I am aware of. But when you play four hours of live play it is hard to remember everything about every hand. When you just play online, you don’t realize that.

I did raise the river. I was called and got shown down KJ. I think I made a mistake in not raising the flop. If I would have been called, I probably could have slowed down and just called the river (remember I did have position).