Against Likely Better Overpair [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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GTSamIAm

07-12-2005, 01:48 PM

Flop I try to make the dead money pay when I may be ahead. Turn I try to make him pay/fold. River I call in big pot although I'm probably dead. Did my flop play marry me to my hand? Should I have laid this down on the turn? His flop play could be consistent with AK since he also has the wheel draw.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif. CO posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, MP2 raises, 1 fold, CO (poster) calls, 3 folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, CO folds, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, Hero 3-bets, MP2 caps, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11.75 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, MP2 raises, UTG folds, Hero calls.

River: (15.75 BB) A/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 17.75 BB

imported_The Vibesman

07-12-2005, 02:05 PM

I'd raise this preflop to thin the field as much as possible...is there a reason not to here?
Reason I ask is it makes the flop play tougher, I think.
Still, once he caps the flop I think you have to put him on something better than AK, don't you? His cap isn't for value on a gutshot draw, he's not folding UTG, and it would be a very aggressive move for this level. Without reads I'm check/calling down although I hate the river. There are players I lay this down to on the turn, and a couple I raise.

MrWookie47

07-12-2005, 02:07 PM

Raise preflop. Once he caps the flop, I give him credit for the better overpair and call down.

GTSamIAm

07-12-2005, 02:08 PM

I was probably going to have to hit a set to win. But a raise for value is probably a good idea.

tiltaholic

07-12-2005, 02:09 PM

hi-
first, if you were trying to "make the dead money pay" on the flop then you should have check raised.
second, i wouldn't bet the turn, or rather, if i was going to check call the river i'd check call the turn as well.

it is dangerous to pick the one hand we hope villian has and run with that. consider the range and play accordingly.

oh, and raise preflop.

GTSamIAm

07-12-2005, 02:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. Once he caps the flop, I give him credit for the better overpair and call down.

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't try and get rid of Joe Schmoe, to protect both of you from getting outdrawn?

imported_The Vibesman

07-12-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was probably going to have to hit a set to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're more likely to win UI the less people you're playing against. In this situation you have two UTG limpers who probably have much worse hands than you have. I'd say raise to try to isolate them, thin out the field ahead of you, plus (least important in my mind but a factor nonetheless)because you have a very good chance of having the best hand right now.
Now if I was in the small or bb with this and the entire table limped in ahead of me, and I know they will all call a raise, I might not raise. Actually this could depend on the table too.

imported_The Vibesman

07-12-2005, 02:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't try and get rid of Joe Schmoe, to protect both of you from getting outdrawn?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a point I admittedly hadn't thought of on the turn, because I was convinced I am beat. But Joe called two cold twice on the flop. I think I'd figure he wasn't going anywhere. And I'm not sure that the combined chance that A: You have the bettor beat and B: The caller will suck out on you, is worth a raise here.

silkyslim

07-12-2005, 02:33 PM

This seems like spewing for most of the hand. Raising pf is standard.

Hojglad

07-12-2005, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop. Once he caps the flop, I give him credit for the better overpair and call down.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really? I fold the turn figuring I'm drawing to 2 outs unless I have a read on the guy as a major lag. AK is not capping this flop. Also, raise preflop. When he three bets you preflop (as he will with the large pocket pair he is representing), it makes this hand a lot easier to play. Stop calling down in a situation like this without a read. This is pretty close to a 3 big bet mistake on the way you played the turn and the river. If he shows you anything worse than 99 here, I'd be extremely surprised. Oh, and if he does, make it a point to play with him as much as possible.