Figure this 1-3 7CS hand out

[34TheTruth34]

Here is a very interesting (IMO anyway) 1-3 7CS hand I played the other day. Can you correctly figure out a) who had what? b)who made a mistake (obviously I didn't /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif )? and c)who won? The first person to post a correct answer to these questions wins free tickets to last year's Super Bowl. Here goes:

The 4 players involved are:
-me in the 2 seat
-a timid lady who only plays decent cards, but doesn't bet unless she has a pretty good hand in the 4 seat
-an agressive lady who pretty much bets the max whenever she has anything reasonable in the 8 seat
-a tight, semi-solid player who pretty much just bets his hand and doesn't really think too much about other players cards and playing style in the 1 seat

3rd street:
I bring it in for $1 with (4-5)-3. a couple of players call.

4th street:
I have (4-5)-3-6, lady in 4 seat has Q-4, lady in 8 seat has J-K, guy in 1 seat has T-8. Somebody who wouldn't figure into the hand bets $1, we all call.

5th street:
I have (4-5)-3-6-T, 4 seat has Q-4-8, 8 seat has J-K-9, 1 seat has T-8-7. Checked around.

6th street:
Where things start to get interesting. I catch a 7 to make my straight. Lady in 4 seat bets $3 with Q-4-8-Q, Lady in 8 seat raises to $6 with K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif -J /forums/images/icons/club.gif -9 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif -A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . Guy in 1 seat has T-8-7-9 and thinks for what seems like an eternity, staring at her cards the entire time. He decides to fold to her raise and angrily throws his cards in. I'm up next facing a double bet.

Here are the questions:
1. What's my play and why?
2. What do they have?
3. Who, if anyone, made a mistake during the hand?
4. Who won? (actually, since you couldn't possibly know that, who was ahead on 6th street?)

I look forward to hearing what you guys think out there in 2+2 land. Thanks for reading this far...

MDL

[Andy B]

I have no quarrel with your play on the early streets. I will just mention that if there was any action on third street, I would probably fold. I frequently muck 345 and 456 for the bring-in, and I play in games with a significant ante.

On sixth I think you have a three-bet. If someone plays back at you, you can think about folding, but you should have every reason to believe that you have the best hand at this point. I would guess that the other players have two pair, something like that. Maybe the one lady made an Ace-high straight, but I think that Aces-up is more likely. You made a mistake because you only called. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif If the other players have bigger hands than two pair, they probably should have bet at some point. Someone made a full house on the river to beat you. If you had won the hand, you wouldn't have posted it. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif How'd I do?

[34TheTruth34]

I have no quarrel with your play on the early streets. I will just mention that if there was any action on third street, I would probably fold. I frequently muck 345 and 456 for the bring-in, and I play in games with a significant ante.

What?

Basically, you just said a)I don't have a problem with the way you played it, but b) I would have folded. Unless I missed something, which is always a possiblity...

I did mention it in the post, but I'll restate that I had the bring in with a 3 low and 4-5 in the hole. A bunch of people limped in so I didn't have to call any raises. I caught a 6 for 3-4-5-6 on 4th street and then there was a $1 bet. Would you not call a $1 bet with my hand (and no 2s and only one 7 dead)? I think that call is fine. I did fully intend to fold if there was any significant action but there wasn't. This was one of those common 1-3 7CS hands where there is no action for the first 5 cards then all hell brakes loose on 6th and 7th street.

No results or comments just yet, except to say that, as always, your analysis is very good. So you think I lost the hand? Ye have little faith...

MDL

[Ed Miller]

Andy's point was not that you should muck your hand without having to call a bet on 3rd street... his point is that you probably shouldn't have called had someone raised your bring-in.

[MRBAA]

Well, I'd be surprised if the lady in the four seat didn't make trip queens on sixth and the lady in seat eight might have two pair with a straight or flush draw or even have the straight already. This isn't a great situation for you, having to call $6 in a pot that's only got about $15 total. You might be winning, you might be losing but you are against better draws for sure. I'd probably call here and hope that seat 8 just has two pair (not a straight), that seat 4 just has trips or two pair, and that my hand holds up. If seat 4 reraises, I have to think she's full. If seat four bets the river and seat eight raises, I'm folding

[morgan]

I also think your opponents made two pair.

If the lady in seat 4 has 3 queens, she made a huge mistake by not betting until now.

The chances the lady in seat 8 has a straight are diminished since 2 queens are taken, and at least one ten is taken. I'd say she has A's - up. I also think she (seat 8) made a mistake not betting on either 4th or 5th with her scary looking board.

Oh yeah, though you probably don't know seat 1's result, I'd say he has two small pair, or a pair of T's with his 4-straight.

As for your play, I agree with Andy that 3-betting is correct.

I hope I'm right /forums/images/icons/smile.gif .

Morgan

[Andy B]

majorkong is correct. I understood that you were the bring-in. Had someone raised, however, I would have folded your hand. I'd probably pay another $1, but not another $3. Hope that clarifies things. Once you're open-ended, though, you should usually stay in until the river. If you want me to spout off about small straight draws, I will, but I think I've said enough about them in the past.

[Tyler Durden]

[34TheTruth34]

I chose my name after my favorite basketball player, Celtics superstar Paul Pierce, #34 whose nickname (given to him by Shaquille O'Neal) is The Truth

[34TheTruth34]

Thanks to everyone who took the time to post a thoughtful response to the post. I do appreciate it. As AndyB was the first to figure out, of course I lost the hand /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

Here's what happened:
The question here is to figure out what the lady in the 8 seat held when raising to $6 with K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif -J-9-A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif . As somebody pointed out here once, a lot of low limit stud players tend to worry about the best possible hand a player could have given their board cards. In this case, it would be an ace-high straight. But could she possibly have that hand? The answer is no. In order for her to have that hand her hole cards would have to be Q-T. And of course, if her hole cards were Q-T, she would have already had a king-high straight and the ace wouldn't really have changed anything, except to lengthen her straight. As the lady is a very aggressive player constantly betting all of her made hands 2 pair or better, she certainly wouldn't have checked on 5th street. Her probable hands are aces up or aces and a 4-flush (she never showed, so I don't know for sure). As the player in the 1 seat was taking forever to make a decision, I knew instantly what had happened. He did, in fact, have a straight but handn't thought it out and put her on a higher straight. He made a huge mistake by folding the best hand, thereby giving me a chance to win. I was ready to fold my straight had he called. The only question that remained was to figure out what the lady in the 4 seat had. It seemed obvious to me that her hand couldn't possibly be queens full. She was a timid player, but definitely would have bet queens up on 5th after there had been no significant action on 3rd and 4th. Therefore her hand was either queens up or 3 queens.
My play was simple. I determined that I had the best hand and made it $9. The lady in the 4 seat just called, confirming my read that she didn't have a full house. The lady in the 8 seat also just called, confirming what I already knew that she didn't have the ace-high straight.

River:
The lady in the 4 seat bets out. Lady in 8 seat folds and I make the proverbial "crying call". Obviously, she shows me queens full. It pains me to think of how much money I could have saved had I caught an early brick or if there had been a bet or a raise earlier forcing me to fold. Oh well, can't win 'em all I guess.

I posted this hand not to show what a great player I am and to brag about how I made such a great read, but just to give examples of how we should be thinking at the table about other players' cards and playing styles and using that knowledge to most optimally play against those players. I think this hand just goes to show how a lot of players at these low limits just play their cards and don't really do much thinking. That's why these games are so profitable. Because a halfway decent player who is constantly thinking about the game is so far ahead and is able to save or gain a bunch of extra bets that the average player (not the major fish, the semi-solid ones who play decent cards) doesn't.

If you're still awake, thanks for reading this far. Good luck...


P.S. I almost forgot the best part. After the hand the guy in the 1 seat asked me if I had a straight. I answered honestly "yes". He just kind of said proudly to me, "I folded my straight" like he was Johnny Chan or something and had made some kind of great play. Good times.

[MRBAA]

Your thinking is on the mark, and now that I've thought it over, I have to agree that a raise (getting 2-1) is the right play, but it's a tough one to make. The lady in four seat, if she is truly passive, is likely to have trips and be drawing to a full. The other lady is likely drawing to beat you two ways (some combo of flush/straight/full). So out of the unseen 35 or so cards, there are about 12-15 that beat you (depending how many are dead). Good thinking, well played. I do have one question -- with this kind of understanding why in the world are you playing 1-3? Aren't you bored out of your mind?

[Jeffage]

I was thinking the same thing...the move to 5-10 should be in your near future...better rake, more money. You are ready for it IMO.

Jeff

[34TheTruth34]

Aren't you bored out of your mind?

Bored? Playing 1-3? Is that possible? You have no idea how much fun it is to play every 22nd hand...Well, at least the games move quickly because all the seasoned veteran players and good/fast dealers are at the 1-3 tables....

Anyway, on a serious note, thanks for the comments guys(Jeffage and MRBAA). I have only played 5-10 once and I took a bath. I had a bunch of hands where I went to the river with a hand like a pair of kings, 4-flush, and K-Q-J-T and a hand like sixes and sevens would end up taking the money. I guess I just don't like having to worry about thoughtful, intelligent opponents. But I'm sure I'll get there soon...