Help

[VanVeen]

I'm having a disagreement with a friend of mine. Help us out.

Earlier this morning I typed this sentence into mIRC: "it is a closed causal system - mental states cannot effect physical states". The implication was that mental states are instantiated by physical states in the brain; physical states are not effected by mental states.

Philosophy aside, please answer the following question:

[kasey2004]

[ QUOTE ]
To affect something is to have an effect on it: Smoking can affect your health. To effect something is to make it happen: The doctor's treatment effected an immediate improvement in the patient's health. Affect is often used instead of effect, so take care when you are writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Googled quick for that answer... basic english.

Why isnt it affect ?. I need sleep, I could care less how the english labguage works.

/images/graemlins/spade.gif Kasey /images/graemlins/spade.gif

[obithrawn]

I misclicked the poll, so subtract one from affect and add it into effect when you do an official tally, please.

[jason_t]

The correct answer here is "effect."

[Stephen Gray]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct answer here is "effect."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ClaytonN]

affect = verb
effect = noun

[Jersey Nick]

Effect n.
Affect v.

Correct answer is Affect.

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
affect = verb
effect = noun

[/ QUOTE ]

not untrue, but also true is:

effect = verb
affect = noun

EDIT: Effect is correct here

[VanVeen]

LOL

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
affect = verb
effect = noun

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this isn't correct at all (you're clearly intending to imply that 'affect' has no noun form and 'effect' has no verb form). They can both be used as ns. and tr. verbs and the usage of both forms of both words is different.

[ClaytonN]

/images/graemlins/mad.gif

[Stephen Gray]

Okay Mr. 140 IQ.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Effect n.
Affect v.

Correct answer is Affect.

[/ QUOTE ]

cf. my reply to ClaytonN.

[Grisgra]

I should read closer, as should everyone that answered "affect". It's definitely "effect".

[rusellmj]

Linky (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=affect&x=0&y=0)

[bronzepiglet]

effect
Function: transitive verb
1 : to cause to come into being

This is exactly how the poster is trying to use this. Go back and read the post. He wants the mental states to be instantiated. There is no way the word "affect" can imply this. The verb form of "affect" means "to produce an effect upon" and this is not what the poster wants to say at all.

99% of the time in the way we use the words "affect" would be a verb and "effect" would be a noun. This is an exception.

If you don't see why, try to find a verb form of "affect" that can actually mean "create" or "instantiate." If you cannot find one then the word "affect" cannot be right.

[Stephen Gray]

There is obviously a profound lack of reading comprehension on the part of the respondents.

[BongRips]

I concur.

[bronzepiglet]

[ QUOTE ]
There is obviously a profound lack of reading comprehension on the part of the respondents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, and I fear the results will get even worse as more people check this.

[VanVeen]

I caught it, Nick!

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[morello]

[ QUOTE ]
There is obviously a profound lack of reading comprehension on the part of the respondents.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Jersey Nick]

[ QUOTE ]
I caught it, Nick!

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

pwned. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

I wasn't wearing my glasses but I'll stick by my guns since it was the same idea. They could both be correct but "effect" is less commonnly used as the transitive verb.

Affect would be more better here.

[greg nice]

at the time of this post, the incorrect answer is in the lead about 2:1

this poll alone goes to show how dumb the majority of this forum is. stupidity is clearly not a trait of a winning player. therefore we must conclude that the majority of 2+2ers are not winning players.

[Mark It Zero!]

it's effect

[wtfsvi]

I voted affect. To effect a physical state would mean to cause it, while to affect a physical state would mean to influence/change it. Yes? It seems clear to me that talking about affecting a physical state is what would be "standard" here.

Another story is that if you meant effect when you wrote effect, then effect is the correct word to use. Yet another story is that I can't see how your statement can be anything but wrong.

Oh well, why am I replying. English is not even my first language.

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Usage Note: Affect and effect have no senses in common. As a verb affect is most commonly used in the sense of “to influence” (how smoking affects health). Effect means “to bring about or execute”: layoffs designed to effect savings. Thus the sentence These measures may affect savings could imply that the measures may reduce savings that have already been realized, whereas These measures may effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about.

[/ QUOTE ]

-Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=affect)

[BusterStacks]

does this really matter? the loser won't pay, even though the winner was decided on this EXACT poll. Some people are bitches and hate to take a sucker bet, but when they do, there's always a way out. Veen, be thankful you didn't let a 3rd party hold your cash on this foolish bet. You can just talk your way around it with your IRC cronies and feel like you were right all along. How awesome is that? Nobody thought you would pay, cuz you're bitch. I know it hurts baby, but you should have known better.

[STLantny]

I thought that the right answer is affect, but Im functionally illiterate, but if you cut and paste the paragraph into MS word, its is a grammar error, and gives affect as the correct answer.

[John Bunnell]

When lowlifes write checks they can't cash, the bank of ownage is always dispensing funds.

[greg nice]

terrible bet by both sides, since the poll is never ending and therefore the outcome of the poll will remain uncertain.

buster made the sucker bet and lucked out on the stupidity of 2+2.

it wouldve been a great bet if he had done that intentionally, betting against the correct answer and on the dumbness of OOT posters.

alas..

[Popinjay]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought that the right answer is affect, but Im functionally illiterate, but if you cut and paste the paragraph into MS word, its is a grammar error, and gives affect as the correct answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proof that effect is the right answer.

[Jernau]

[ QUOTE ]
I voted affect. To effect a physical state would mean to cause it, while to affect a physical state would mean to influence/change it. Yes? It seems clear to me that talking about affecting a physical state is what would be "standard" here.

Another story is that if you meant effect when you wrote effect, then effect is the correct word to use. Yet another story is that I can't see how your statement can be anything but wrong.

Oh well, why am I replying. English is not even my first language.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Stephen Gray]

<BusterStx> whichever is correct according to college level english wins 1k
<BusterStx> deal?
<vanveen> ok
<vanveen> yes
<Marnix> lol @ bet
<BusterStx> post it

[bwana devil]

if you're having trouble try putting a synonym in the sentence.

affect = influence
effect = result

which one makes more sense? obviously affect. it's funny to hear all the people who not only staunchly defend the wrong answer but call everyone who is right a moron.

final answer = affect

[bisonbison]

The clear answer is that the sentence is poorly written.

Just say 'create'.

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
it is a closed causal system

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're having trouble try putting a synonym in the sentence.

affect = influence
effect = result

which one makes more sense? obviously affect. it's funny to hear all the people who not only staunchly defend the wrong answer but call everyone who is right a moron.

final answer = affect

[/ QUOTE ]

repeat after me:

CAUSE and ...

EFFECT

[bisonbison]

repeat after me:

CAUSE and ...

EFFECT

Yeah, that cleared things right up, champ.

Usage Note: Affect and effect have no senses in common. As a verb affect is most commonly used in the sense of “to influence” (how smoking affects health). Effect means “to bring about or execute”: layoffs designed to effect savings. Thus the sentence These measures may affect savings could imply that the measures may reduce savings that have already been realized, whereas These measures may effect savings implies that the measures will cause new savings to come about.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're having trouble try putting a synonym in the sentence.

affect = influence
effect = bring into being, create

which one makes more sense? obviously effect. it's funny to hear all the people who not only staunchly defend the wrong answer but call everyone who is right a moron.

final answer = effect

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

[bwana devil]

go back to jr high english please. "It is a closed causal system." is one sentence and has no bearing on the use affect/effect. the guy used bad punctuation because he just did which is fine--he's typing to a buddy.

the real sentence is "Mental states cannot affect physical states."

[Marnixvdb]

[ QUOTE ]
go back to jr high english please. "It is a closed causal system." is one sentence and has no bearing on the use affect/effect. the guy used bad punctuation because he just did which is fine--he's typing to a buddy.

the real sentence is "Mental states cannot affect physical states."

[/ QUOTE ]

both words to affect/to effect have a different meaning. The 'closed causal system' gives you a context, just as the word 'instantiate', with a similar meaning as 'to effect'. You may be able to use both words, resulting in two sentences with a different meaning, but from the context, it is clear 'Effect' is the only right word to use.

[Jersey Nick]

Here's why (http://tinyurl.com/byfwh) the bet is a push.
[ QUOTE ]
But I would not be completely honest with you if I didn't point out a couple of exceptions:

Exception #1: Sometimes effect can do the job of a verb. Aw, hell, sometimes it is a verb. Here's when:

Jonathan, please effect a total makeover of your essay.

In this sentence, "effect" has two special conditions:

1. there is a direct object ("(makeover)")

2. It means bring about, cause to happen.

I love how classy the use of "effect" this way sounds:

Yes, Marjorie, I will effect the changes you require in our relationship.

effect = bring about, "changes"= direct object, so we know using effect this way is OK.

It sounds so much more elegant than, "Yes, Marjorie, I will do what you tell me to do."

[/ QUOTE ]

"mental states cannot effect physical states"

1. there is a direct object: physical states

2. It means bring about, cause to happen.

Bison is right as always - it is poorly written.

[Stephen Gray]

Sorry, you are wrong. "Mental states cannot influence physical states." is vastly different than "Mental states cannot bring into being, create physical states." The preceding, "it is a closed causal system" is contextual clue that makes clear the meaning of the sentence.

[bisonbison]

The preceding, "it is a closed causal system" is contextual clue that makes clear the meaning of the sentence.

No, the first sentence doesn't resolve any of the ambiguity. Sorry.

"Closed causal system": causation can include creation and influence.

[Cancer Merchant]

[ QUOTE ]
The clear answer is that the sentence is poorly written.

Just say 'create'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly.

"Use definite, specific, concrete language. Prefer the specific to the general, the definite to the vague,
the concrete to the abstract."

[Stephen Gray]

This was a discussion about how the arrangement of an individual's neurotransmitters creates his or her perceptions, emotions, etc. The sentence may not be constructed in the best manner, but it is not ambiguous and it is certainly not incorrect.

[greg nice]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're having trouble try putting a synonym in the sentence.

affect = influence
effect = result

which one makes more sense? obviously affect. it's funny to hear all the people who not only staunchly defend the wrong answer but call everyone who is right a moron.

final answer = affect

[/ QUOTE ]


problem for you and 75% of the others is, you are only aware of one definition for 'effect'. once you realize that youve erred, it is unlikely you will reappear in the thread out of sheer embarassment. life is grand

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
The clear answer is that the sentence is poorly written.

Just say 'create'.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly what i was saying in #twoplustwo. this bisonbison guy is smart.

[bwana devil]

[ QUOTE ]
once you realize that youve erred, it is unlikely you will reappear in the thread out of sheer embarassment.

[/ QUOTE ]

...or boredom. ive made my case. learn from it or don't. your choice.

[bronzepiglet]

[ QUOTE ]
The clear answer is that the sentence is poorly written.

Just say 'create'.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is the answer. And problems arise from the ambiguity...

but I would hope that people would realize that we're not talking about some 3rd grade difference between "effect" and "affect" here, but rather extended appropriate usages of a word. Most of those responding to the poll aren't getting this before they click their answer.

[Sephus]

veen is correct, in the "college usage" sense, but the real problem is that rather than use language that would communicate his thoughts most efficiently (given his audience), he decided to do it most pretentiously. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[obithrawn]

Your arrogance is a bad attempt to veil your stupidity, I suspect.

[BusterStacks]

[ QUOTE ]
Your arrogance is a bad attempt to veil your stupidity, I suspect.

[/ QUOTE ]

Suspicion is all you have.

[kitaristi0]

The correct answer is 'affect'.

[elus2]

USAGE NOTE Affect and effect have no senses in common. As a verb affect is most commonly used in the sense of “to influence” (how smoking affects health). Effect means “to bring about or execute”: layoffs designed to effect savings.

now pick which context describes the best use of that verb. i'd go for effect.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct answer is 'affect'.

[/ QUOTE ]

you just embarrassed all of finland.

[Reef]

[ QUOTE ]
The correct answer is 'affect'.

[/ QUOTE ]