Ugh.. I hate donk bets.

[bobdibble]

Villian is semi-loose/with medium agro.

I figured the turn bet was a semi-donk bluff of some kind, pair+flush draw, or pair+gutshot (e.g. QT) or something weird.

But the donk on the river threw me for a bit of a loop. I wasn't sure what to make of it. I called, but Ax7h? Qx7h? Plain old Ax? JT that wanted to see a non-heart river? Qx? wtf... donk bets confuse me.

This is clearly a call, right?

Party Poker (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Folded to Hero who raises. BB calls.

Flop: A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks. Hero bets. BB calls.

Turn: Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB bets. Hero raises. BB calls.

River: 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB bets. Hero calls.

[ike]

Why did you raise the turn?

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because I thought he was semi-bluffing.

edit: semi-bluffing and also with a pair that I can currently beat.

[Jeff W]

Well played.

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
Because I thought he was semi-bluffing.

[/ QUOTE ]
If your read is right he's got in the neighborhood of 15 outs. If your read is wrong you're getting 3bet.
I'd rather smoothcall and raise a nonheart river.
Suppose the action went as it did except the river is a heart, do you fold?

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
Suppose the action went as it did except the river is a heart, do you fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I call. But I've been trying to raise the turn rather than the river, because if he is semi-blufing, people tend to check the river pretty frequently. I'd like to get the bets in when I believe I am ahead.

Now that you mentioned this other line, I seem to remember Nate saying something to the effect of your line at some point, but I don't remember the details. Did anyone bookmark Nate's comments situations similar to this?

[arod15]

Yes you call. He prob doesnt have the flush or he would have reraised you. You could perhaps be loosing to a two pair but i think more often than not your good here. So you call.

[arod15]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
You have to raise the turn to see where your at here. THe
fact villian didnt reraise here makes me believe hero is sitting good. At least you could rule out a flush unless the donk is sitting on a low flush and is scared to reraise. Idk I like the raise.

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Why did you raise the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]
You have to raise the turn to see where your at here. THe
fact villian didnt reraise here makes me believe hero is sitting good. At least you could rule out a flush unless the donk is sitting on a low flush and is scared to reraise. Idk I like the raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

*you're

You have to reraise because you probably still have the best hand. The question is: if you get re-raised, do you call down or fold? Unfortunately, I'd say the answer is, it depends on the read. But against an average player, I'd lean toward fold.

The thing is, if you Don't fold, then seeing "where you're at" is worthless, because you don't gain anything from the information.

Against a loose aggressive player, I'd be calling down, so this would be strictly a value raise.

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes you call. He prob doesnt have the flush or he would have reraised you. You could perhaps be loosing to a two pair but i think more often than not your good here. So you call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just as likely if not more he would've check-raised the river with the flush. But either way, yes, call. In fact, I would be sorely tempted to *raise* because this guy's play doesn't make any sense.. I could see it being semibluff turn, desperation donk river. And such players also tend to always call one more on the river just to see.

I wouldn't though. Need more hands of him being a moron to value raise in this spot.

[34TheTruth34]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather smoothcall and raise a nonheart river.


[/ QUOTE ]

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'd rather smoothcall and raise a nonheart river.


[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Why? If he is drawing, he will pay you now, not later.

[ike]

Your equity on the turn is not nearly as impressive as you think. Sometimes you're behind and drawing dead or nearly so, more often you're ahead and your opponent has a huge number of outs. You'll get 3bet very often by hands that have you beat, sets and 2pairs as well as flushes, and be forced to fold with outs. Furthermore, against tricky aggressive opponents you may be semi-bluff 3bet with roughly correct frequency which forces you to either make occasional awful folds or lots of unpleasant payoffs of their value raises. If he has real poop that he'll correctly fold to the raise he may still randomly bet the river if you smoothcall.

Edit: I just realized after I posted this that the main point of what I'm saying is that the raise is bad because your opponent will rarely make a fundamental theorem of poker mistake after your raise but will frequently do so after your call. This more than compensates for the fraction of a bet in value that the turn raise earns you.