KK vs. TAG

[Jeff W]

TAG is 21/11/2.5 with WtSD of 36 over 600 hands. I have been pounding him unmercifully--I'm up 10 BB against him in 15 confrontations.

TAG raises in EP, I reraise with Kd-Ks, everyone else folds and TAG calls.

Flop comes Qs-7d-5s

TAG checks, I bet, TAG raises, I reraise and TAG calls.

Turn comes 2h

TAG bets, I raise, TAG calls.

River comes 6s

TAG checks, I bet.

[Lmn55d]

interesting. I dont know exactly what his turn bet means. He can't be thinking you'd 3bet the flop then take a free card, ,can he (there's the flush draw+overs I guess and maybe AK would sometimes 3bet for free card, but most TAGs usually bet turn again with flush draw anyway)? Otherwise it looks like he's looking to bet 3bet which he didn't or bet/fold to a raise which he didn't. So I definitely like the river bet after he just calls you. I'm not sure I like the turn raise though as it looks like either a bet/fold sort of feeler bet or a bet/3bet bet with a hand like 77 or slowplayed QQ/AA. Unless he is the type who would go 3bets on the turn with KQ or AQ b/c then I like the raise more, but you didn't say he's overaggressive.

[SmileyEH]

Said TAG is swearing under his breath as he calls the river bet. Nice hand.

-SmileyEH

[Chris Daddy Cool]

hey jeff,

what is your plan if you get 3-bet on the turn? as played its pretty obvious your hand is good though.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
what is your plan if you get 3-bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd cringe and call down. That is why I posted the hand--is the risk of being 3-bet worth picking up an extra bet here?

[oreogod]

I would guess tag has AQ, KQs, JJ or TT. From the like, it looks like he doesnt want to give u a free card, on the river, hes probably flipping over top board pair.

If u guys were the TAG, could u lay down AQ on the river (or turn)?

[HajiShirazu]

Looks good to me. What about waiting until the river? Is he the type to fold AQ to a turn raise here (I don't think there are many people like this)? Actually raising the turn is better since you don't really mind if he folds AQ. Guess I answered my own question.

[AdamL]

nh

[Escape]

Nice hand. I'd play it exactly the same.

[brettbrettr]

Considering your history this looks fine to me. Turn bet looks like he doesn't want to give you a free one.

If he 3-bets the turn, I think I'd still call him down seeing as though he might just be tired of you pounding on him. I wouldn't be happy about it though.

If he 3-bets the turn and check-raises the river, then what? Ugh, I pay off too much.

[jskills]

My guess - TAG shows you AQ and YHIG.

If he held QQ, he'd have hit you back on the turn for sure.

If he's holding AA, his behavior is still pretty passive, despite your raises, unless he is irrationally fearing QQ from all the times you've beaten him.

If he held either of those hands, I'd guess action would have been capped preflop anyway ...

Is there a question about this hand in particular though?

[W. Deranged]

Just a thought:

Does anyone like calling the turning and waiting until the river to raise?

1. A decent TAG might get away from the hand on the turn if raised. The turn raise might actually thus cost one or two bets over waiting until the river.

2. You are likely substantially ahead (oppponent with 5 outs or so) or very far behind here (2 outs), and shouldn't feel the need to pressure draws too heavily since the pot is heads up.

3. You are less likely to get three-bet on the river than the turn, particularly if the river brings a somewhat scary card (like the flush card). So you might on average lose less than you would if you raise the turn (depending on trickiness of opponent and whether you'd call down after a turn three-bet... that's a different question).

4. You can probably fold confidently if three-bet unless you have a strong read that your opponent will make audacious river bluffs or push a top pair hand in this situation.


Just a thought. I don't know if this is definitely better than the turn raise, but I think there are certainly some reasons why it might be.

[Jeff W]

[ QUOTE ]
If he 3-bets the turn and check-raises the river, then what? Ugh, I pay off too much.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he 3-bets the turn I check the river behind unless it's a King.

[MaxPower]

I sometimes would just call the turn and raise the river (if I am sure he will bet again). This way you get the same amount of money in to the pot and most people will not 3-bet the river without a real monster.

In this case, I like the way you played it. The only hand he can have that you are worried about is QQ and he probably doesn't have that. There is a small chance has AA and just called pre-flop for deception. Another reason for raising the turn is that there are a lot of scare cards than could come that will stop him from betting the river (or you from betting/raising).

[callmedonnie]

Does anyone else think villain's three bet on the flop and then lead out on turn is because he's tilting as you keep taking his chips from the pot? It's enough to scare a lot of hands, but not the one you got.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what is your plan if you get 3-bet on the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd cringe and call down. That is why I posted the hand--is the risk of being 3-bet worth picking up an extra bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends what you've been showing when you 3-bet his ass and how often you've been folding to his aggression.