Hand from another $430 step...

[curtains]

***** Hand History for Game 2348779114 *****
cmomdog finished in eighth place.
50/100 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL) (Tournament 13854242) - Mon Jul 11 21:52:48 EDT 2005
Table Mini Step 5 1014143 (Real Money) -- Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 7
Seat 3: curtainz (705)
Seat 4: AAhole11 (1109)
Seat 5: terpdog34 (909)
Seat 6: L8Show (1869)
Seat 7: Dave786978 (1147)
Seat 8: hardinda (1166)
Seat 10: andolini13 (3095)
andolini13 posts small blind (25)
curtainz posts big blind (50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to curtainz [ Tc, 6c ]
AAhole11 folds.
terpdog34 folds.
L8Show folds.
Dave786978 folds.
hardinda folds.
andolini13 calls (25)
curtainz checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 5d, 5c, Ac ]
andolini13 bets (50)

your move...

[adanthar]

Is he an idiot with too many chips or a decent player?

I like raising to 150 and taking a turn freebie if called.

[Phil Van Sexton]

You have 655. The pot is 150. Give me a read or I'm pushing.

[The Don]

Moving in is my standard play there. I hate dealing with the blank turn.

[kuro]

Why not call the 50 on the flop and bet out 100 on the turn. You get to see the turn for sure and your bet on the turn maybe gets you to the river or takes it down. Costs you less than check raising and looks like you're value betting an ace or a five. Check-raising all-in on the flop probably is only folding out overcards anyway.

[freemoney]

thats by far the worst line imo you dont want to waste 150 only to miss the turn and river and have to fold, i will often make it 125-150ish in this spot with any 2 cards, you have the added bonus of some outs, i wanna get value out of this spot regardless of my hand, playing this like a flush draw is a big mistake.

[microbet]

Your saying that you play the flop the same, but you will bet the turn if it is checked to you?

[curtains]

Okay I played the hand badly. This is a common situation that I call "playing chicken". When an ace flops, basically both players are reasonably confident that the other opponent has nothing. A common scenario is that the SB randomly bets, the BB raises and the SB reraises and then the BB folds.

Anyway I feel I should just move allin. It doesn't really matter that the SB may know that I don't have an ace or a five, because really they arent calling anyway. Raising less allows them the chance to rebluff me, which is a definitely possibility on a board like this.

Anyway for some reason I had some brain damage and decided to min raise to 100, with the sick and twisted idea that if they reraised to like 250-300 then Id move allin. This is of course completely insane, because it assumes my opponent is some kind of genius that is going to do everything in their power to take the pot away from me.

Anyway so the sick ending is I raised to 100 and they went allin! Now it was like 500 to call, and for some sick reason I decided to call again, deciding that I had a flush draw and there was some small chance my pair outs were good. Again I have to remember that my opponents aren't always as sick as me and there is a chance they actually have something in this spot. Also its completely ridiculous for me to make a raise that doesnt pot commit myself if they should come over the top. Anyway he turned over A4o and his hand held up.

Anyway 150 chips in the pot, they'd look nice in my stack, I don't have enough chips to mess around and I believe I should just move allin. Give me 400-600 chips extra and there is a lot more room to manuever. In that case smaller raises make a lot of sense as well as calling the flop.

Calling the flop is a possibility in this example, but I really prefer moving allin.

[Ryendal]

[ QUOTE ]
Also its completely ridiculous for me to make a raise that doesnt pot commit myself if they should come over the top.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you please why you think it's important to commit yourself in a pot ?
Do you mean you should at least, make a strong bet and so avoid to be reraised-allin without any continuation for you ? ( if you are not pot commited )

[curtains]

Oh because I don't want to fold this hand no matter what. I don't want to make a bet where my decision after my opponent's action is very difficult to make. Anyway I should just move allin on the flop, very unlikely he can call me and the 150 chips mean a lot.

[45suited]

I like the flop push too, but just out of curiosity...

Curtains, if you were the SB, would you call the push with A4o? Not saying pushing is wrong (since I agree with it), I'm just curious as to whether you would call.

I think it's an interesting decision and hardly an auto fold for him here.

[curtains]

Well I wouldn't limp from the SB to start things off, I push there every time as its very clear +EV to do so. Once the flop comes if I somehow happened to limp....I'll check...basically he played the hand the exact opposite of how I'd play it.

You pretty much have to call the allin on the flop w A4. If I had an ace I'd move allin preflop, if I had a 5 I usually wouldnt just open allin. Someone is going to have to show me a better hand in this spot for only 600 chips.

[Freudian]

He who eats chili gets burned and he who touches the pot gets charcoal on his hands.
- Philippine Proverb

Question is if he would have called your push with the aces. Going all-in on a flop like this always smell fishy.

[adanthar]

This is my problem with pushing, BTW. An ace is always gonna call. It's an A55 board. What hands call a raise that won't call a push?

The paired board really hurts IMO.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
This is my problem with pushing, BTW. An ace is always gonna call. It's an A55 board. What hands call a raise that won't call a push?

The paired board really hurts IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree.
Paired boards make people do weird things.

[adanthar]

This might be a stakes issue...I've seen that bet/3 bet play maybe four times in my last hundred 109's. Good to know it comes up later /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Curtains: You said the ministeps have tougher play than the 215's. Why is that, given that there's the occasional $6 player that comes up through the chain?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
This is my problem with pushing, BTW. An ace is always gonna call. It's an A55 board. What hands call a raise that won't call a push?

The paired board really hurts IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

An ace calling an allin is the least of my concerns , theres no way in hell Im getting an ace to fold when I have only 600 chips and its quite unlikely that he has one anyway. You should be more concerned about playing when you assume he doesnt have an ace IMO.