I should have checked behind.

[Yeti]

Following the recent discussion about checking flush draws behind on the flop, here's one where I should have gone with my gut and used my newly discovered trick.

10/20, full table. Folded to me in CO w/ AhKh.

I make it $75, SB calls, BB calls. We all have 3k.

KQJhh
chk chk 200, fold, BB makes it 400 more, I call.

4o
1400, fold.

Meh.

[MoDOH]

Since you didn´t check on the flop how about moving all-in? You have 12 clean outs and could have as many as 15...
You have 12 outs against a set
You have 15 outs agaisnt two pair
You have 9 nutouts + 2 split outs against a nutstraight
You have 11 nutouts against a low straight

Depending on your opponent I think it´s really close...

But since your folding equity is pretty much zero I think it´s better to play it the way you did...

[tdomeski]

Yeah I think you have that one pretty figured out. . flop check gets you paid off more by a lower flush than a flop bet while also keeping the pot small with a showdownable hand. And a flop bet getting raised makes your TPTK insignificant.

[tdomeski]

With $2K stacks I like the all in a lot.

[flawless_victory]

IMO, you have two choices good choices when it is your turn on the flop...
you can bet 200, hoping to get raised and push, or you can check it. the way you played it (as you realize)sucks...

[rwperu34]

With the stacks that deep I like the check behind on the flop. You have a hand that might be ahead, villian has to play as catious as you, and you can call a pot sized bet on the turn. Plus for me, I get check raised so often by such marginal holdings, I would almost be forced to push the flop. I'm all for pushing sraight flush draws, but this is a tough one. You can make him fold a lot of hands that are better than yours, if you're not ahead already, but I just don't know if it's worth $2700 to win $1025 against this board.

[IHateCats]

Yep, definitely a check on the flop here, 3 cards over 9 should usually be a check in position with this many players when you have TPTK but a lot of outs, the odds of someone else having a powerhouse are just too good to start building a big pot with top pair there.

Definitely a fold on the turn even if all your outs are good here since if you flat call and hit, all your outs are so incredibly obvious he might get away from it so even the max implied odds of what's left of his stack don't justify a call against even the weakest of his possible holdings here. Yuck.

[aggie]

Pushing after the checkraise in my opinion is bad. He'll only get called by better hands and no better hand is folding. He would be better off calling the 400 raise, and then calling the 1400 on the turn. But given the bet, i like the way he played the flop.

That said, i love checking this flop, especailly against aggressive opponents

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
You can make him fold a lot of hands that are better than yours, if you're not ahead already,

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, than i love pushing the flop. i just don't see villian folding many better hands here.

[rwperu34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You can make him fold a lot of hands that are better than yours, if you're not ahead already,

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, than i love pushing the flop. i just don't see villian folding many better hands here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Two pair is a virtual coin flip, so although those hands aren't any better, they are taking away EV, so I'd still like them fold.

If I was the villian in this hand I would have a very hard time calling $2400 with JJ or KQ and AA, KJ, and QJ are in the muck for sure.

I still don't think villian folds enough to make the push +EV with stacks this deep.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing after the checkraise in my opinion is bad. He'll only get called by better hands and no better hand is folding. He would be better off calling the 400 raise, and then calling the 1400 on the turn. But given the bet, i like the way he played the flop.

That said, i love checking this flop, especailly against aggressive opponents

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont like the way he played this flop, you seriously wouldnt mind calling off >50% of ur stack by turn?
I know i wouldnt, betting this flop is not terrible, although given stack sizes, checking is the optimal play i think.
Once he raises 400 more, im moving in. I dont know if he would risk a checkraise with a set on this flop, with a ton of draws.

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
you seriously wouldnt mind calling off >50% of ur stack by turn?


[/ QUOTE ]

no, that's not what i meant to say

[ QUOTE ]
But given the bet, i like the way he played the flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

what i meant to say here was i like the way he played the entire hand....IE calling the checkraise and folding to the bet on the turn. If i was forced to choose from:

1. calling the checkraise and then calling the turn bet
2. pushing all in after the checkraise

I choose option 2. I believe option 3 (playing the hand the way OP played it) is the best option involving the flop bet.

The absolutly best option is #4, Checking behind on the flop....

[aggie]

[ QUOTE ]
If I was the villian in this hand I would have a very hard time calling $2400 with JJ or KQ and AA, KJ, and QJ are in the muck for sure.

I still don't think villian folds enough to make the push +EV with stacks this deep.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he folds all the hands that you mention than pushing all in is definitely +EV.....Question is, is it a higher +EV than just calling the $400 and playing from there. Which choice has the higher EV. If he is folding all those hands you mention, i think pushing is best