Lawrence Ng
07-11-2005, 07:01 PM
I've been digging up in the old archives in the mid section back from 2000 to 2003.
If there is enough interest, I am thinking of pulling some hands from there and opening them up for discussion again on here.
Here's a post Jim Brier made back in August 2000 and I was a bit surprised at Mason's response:
Jim wrote:
Posted by: Jim Brier 30/60
Posted on: Friday, 18 August 2000, at 12:54 p.m.
I am in Seat #3 as the big blind holding the 6h5h. #4 limps in under the gun and #7 raises to $60. #9 calls. I call for another $30. #4 calls. There is $260 in the pot and four players.
The flop is: Kh5s2c
I check my middle pair in this raised pot. #4 checks. #7, the pre-flop raiser, bets $30. #9 folds. I call for $30 with almost $300 in the pot with my 5 outer. #4 calls. There is $350 in the pot and three players.
The turn is: 6d
I check, planning to check-raise since #7 was the pre-flop raiser and bet the flop when it came King-high. But #4 checks. #7 checks. My plan failed.
The river is: Qs
I now bet $30 and only #7 calls. I win as he mucks.
Comments please.
Mason responded:
Posted by: Mason Malmuth (MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 19 August 2000, at 4:18 a.m.
Jim:
I haven't read the other comments, but here are mine.
Mason
"I am in Seat #3 as the big blind holding the 6h5h. #4 limps in under the gun and #7 raises to $60. #9 calls. I call for another $30."
I agree with this call.
"#4 calls. There is $260 in the pot and four players."
The flop is: Kh5s2c
"I check my middle pair in this raised pot. #4 checks. #7, the pre-flop raiser, bets $30. #9 folds. I call for $30 with almost $300 in the pot with my 5 outer. #4 calls. There is $350 in the pot and three players."
You have a problem here. Your hand may be best. With that being the case, you may have wanted to consider leading with a bet. However, I frequently would check to watch the action. Given that you did this, I would strongly consider check raising. This raise would be especially good against a player who migh call your check raise with something like a pair of jacks, but then fold on fourth street unless he improves (or picks up a draw).
"The turn is: 6d
"I check, planning to check-raise since #7 was the pre-flop raiser and bet the flop when it came King-high. But #4 checks. #7 checks. My plan failed."
There's a lot to consider here. I certainly would go for the check raise against someone who is prone to bet again without having a king (or better). However, you should strongly consider betting since there is a good chance the before the flop bettor does not have a king. (If he does have something like AK he may raise after you bet so the two bets go in anyway.
"The river is: Qs"
"I now bet $30 and only #7 calls. I win as he mucks."
If you check here, and the other player checks, you are both telling the original raiser that you don't have a king, and probably don't have a queen. If he holds a queen, he should be inclined to bet it, especially if he is aggressive. I'm not saying it's right, but you should have considered going for a checkraise.
Anyone here agree/disagree with Mason?
Lawrence
If there is enough interest, I am thinking of pulling some hands from there and opening them up for discussion again on here.
Here's a post Jim Brier made back in August 2000 and I was a bit surprised at Mason's response:
Jim wrote:
Posted by: Jim Brier 30/60
Posted on: Friday, 18 August 2000, at 12:54 p.m.
I am in Seat #3 as the big blind holding the 6h5h. #4 limps in under the gun and #7 raises to $60. #9 calls. I call for another $30. #4 calls. There is $260 in the pot and four players.
The flop is: Kh5s2c
I check my middle pair in this raised pot. #4 checks. #7, the pre-flop raiser, bets $30. #9 folds. I call for $30 with almost $300 in the pot with my 5 outer. #4 calls. There is $350 in the pot and three players.
The turn is: 6d
I check, planning to check-raise since #7 was the pre-flop raiser and bet the flop when it came King-high. But #4 checks. #7 checks. My plan failed.
The river is: Qs
I now bet $30 and only #7 calls. I win as he mucks.
Comments please.
Mason responded:
Posted by: Mason Malmuth (MasonMalmuth@TwoPlusTwo.com)
Posted on: Saturday, 19 August 2000, at 4:18 a.m.
Jim:
I haven't read the other comments, but here are mine.
Mason
"I am in Seat #3 as the big blind holding the 6h5h. #4 limps in under the gun and #7 raises to $60. #9 calls. I call for another $30."
I agree with this call.
"#4 calls. There is $260 in the pot and four players."
The flop is: Kh5s2c
"I check my middle pair in this raised pot. #4 checks. #7, the pre-flop raiser, bets $30. #9 folds. I call for $30 with almost $300 in the pot with my 5 outer. #4 calls. There is $350 in the pot and three players."
You have a problem here. Your hand may be best. With that being the case, you may have wanted to consider leading with a bet. However, I frequently would check to watch the action. Given that you did this, I would strongly consider check raising. This raise would be especially good against a player who migh call your check raise with something like a pair of jacks, but then fold on fourth street unless he improves (or picks up a draw).
"The turn is: 6d
"I check, planning to check-raise since #7 was the pre-flop raiser and bet the flop when it came King-high. But #4 checks. #7 checks. My plan failed."
There's a lot to consider here. I certainly would go for the check raise against someone who is prone to bet again without having a king (or better). However, you should strongly consider betting since there is a good chance the before the flop bettor does not have a king. (If he does have something like AK he may raise after you bet so the two bets go in anyway.
"The river is: Qs"
"I now bet $30 and only #7 calls. I win as he mucks."
If you check here, and the other player checks, you are both telling the original raiser that you don't have a king, and probably don't have a queen. If he holds a queen, he should be inclined to bet it, especially if he is aggressive. I'm not saying it's right, but you should have considered going for a checkraise.
Anyone here agree/disagree with Mason?
Lawrence