ICM ....

[Mr_J]

ICM just crunches the numbers treating chips as equal no matter who holds them. But surely chips aren't equal for everyone? A pro SNGer with XXXX chips will outperform a typical party SNGer with XXXX chips. ICM doesn't take skill into account, and the future value of chips based on the skill of the owner.

This would explain gigabet seeming to take marginal edges or racing earlier on to build up a bigstack (this is the impression I've got from posts, I've never seen him play and feel free to correct me).

We take our strengths and weaknesses into account when developing our playing style (not enough??), and it does influence our decisions (not enough??), I'm just saying that when someone then does the ICM calculation it will be flawed. E.g. when we run ICM we can't be sure it is the right play, since the right play might be different depending on who's making the decision.

Thoughts?

[citanul]

this is amongst the reasons that i find that icm is much more useful (as i believe it's advertized) later in the game, when the stacks are shorter.

citanul

[microbet]

At the begining of the tourney a player with a positive ROI has more equity than a player with a zero ROI. If you were to buy the result of the tourneys, you would pay more for the good players game. The equity is clearly different.

But, what gives the good player a higher equity? Does he/she get this equity by taking advantage of the +$EV spots, using a definition of +$EV that is blind to skill?

At any rate, the block-theory controversy is not just that it would be contrary to ICM, but it would be the opposite of the natural adjustment which would have a good player passing on marginal +$icmEV situations, rather than embracing -$icmEV situations.

[maddog2030]

This topic has been discussed a number of times since its inception.

The moral is just don't take ICM to be something it isn't. It's clearly defined for what it is. It's a useful tool to understand the basic dynamics of the structural change that occur during a tournament. As with any model, don't use it to make decisions outside of its scope. Realize where real $EV and icmEV can deviate significantly. The End.