Mid-pairs in EP (109's)

[bigt439]

***** Hand History for Game 2341985806 *****
150/300 TourneyTexasHTGameTable (NL) (Tournament 13817628) - Sun Jul 10 16:15:18 EDT 2005
Table Table 35013 (Real Money) -- Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 5
Seat 1: ME (1520)
Seat 3: i12play (2890)
Seat 6: JBMead (2202)
Seat 8: jshrizz (2690)
Seat 9: diamondjack7 (698)
jshrizz posts small blind (75)
diamondjack7 posts big blind (150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to ME [ 7c, 7d ]
ME folds.
i12play folds.
JBMead calls (150)
jshrizz calls (75)
diamondjack7 checks.


Few interesting things with this hand. I have 10 bb's so it's pretty much push or fold, but with that many bb's I'm wondering if I really have to risk pushing here. Having said that I do have to steal from the two biggest stacks. I find mid pairs like this and a stack of exactly 10 bb's to be the most confusing to play around this stage of the tournament and I would kind of like a general consensus on their play as well as specific feedback for this hand.

[Nicholasp27]

the big stacks will prolly be content to let you either steal the shortstack's blinds or have him call ur push, so their range of calling should be pretty small

i'd prolly push, but i'm interesting in hearing more on this situation from better players

[EverettKings]

I'd push.

There are no real "big" stacks, and you can do a helluva lot of damage to anyone at the table. There isn't like a 4k stack that doesn't mind keeping you honest for 1500 chips: none of those 2700ish stacks want to risk cutting down to 1200. You're also not right on the bubble with a short stack (i.e. someone with a stack bigger than you still has to bust), so I'd give this hand a play.

If you raise less than all in, and someone pushes, you'll be getting nearly 2:1 and will have to call. That said, you should open push if you're going to play. For the reasons stated above, the "big" stacks will have quite narrow calling ranges. If the SB doesn't come along you get some free chips, and if he does you are in good shape to win and lock up a 4 way race for the money.

Kings

[durron597]

This is a very close spot IMO. I think it has a lot to do with the texture of the table - do you think this table was generally tight and you could accumulate without resistance? Or were most pots raised and it very tough for you to pick up blinds?

If the latter, I push. Former I fold.

[curtains]

Folding is very bad. I would move allin. With only a shade over 10x the BB and 2 off the button, 77 is too powerful a holding to fold. Pushing is clearly +EV the only real question here is whether a different raise amount is better for whatever reasons (I don't think so, I move allin here always).

Folding is not a reasonable option however. It may seem harmless to just fold in such situations because you have so many chips and why risk it, but it will cost you a lot over the long run as this is the type of situation that occurs over and over again in sit and gos.

[tigerite]

Got to agree. I would also do this with 66. Lower is a bit more debateable however..

[Scuba Chuck]

Curtains, while I agree with your comments, what pair is too small to continue forward? Would you play with 44 here?

Scuba
who's still waiting for a response on your chess contract.

[tigerite]

Personally I think I would fold 55 and below.

[1C5]

I push the 77 always here.

[wiggs73]

Does anyone limp this and fold to a raise? I would be inclined to try to see a flop and play against the blinds with position. If you do end up folding, going into push/fold mode with 9 BBs instead of 10 isn't that big of a deal IMO.

Edit: This is obviously not an optimal play if either of the big stacks are good enough to push with pretty much anything here to steal your chips along with the blinds. At the 109s, this is probably a good possibility, but not always at the lower limits that I play. If the big stacks are very passive, I think this is an OK play; if they are not, then push.

[tigerite]

No. Limping UTG with blinds 75/150, you may as well put a neon sign on them saying "THESE CHIPS ARE FOR STEALING".

[1C5]

[ QUOTE ]
No. Limping UTG with blinds 75/150, you may as well put a neon sign on them saying "THESE CHIPS ARE FOR STEALING".

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless you have AA or KK which I have seen people limp with here on a tight table.

[wiggs73]

Yeah, I edited that in. I usually play lower limits where people can't read that sign. I imagine that in 109s they can and do.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, while I agree with your comments, what pair is too small to continue forward? Would you play with 44 here?

Scuba
who's still waiting for a response on your chess contract.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pushing 55 is still +CEV but it's pretty thin. That one is acceptable to fold. I would fold 44.

Not sure what you mean about chess contract also...

[tigerite]

Sure. Happens sometimes. Most times they don't have that though. It's more likely when they have 5-6 BB, also.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, while I agree with your comments, what pair is too small to continue forward? Would you play with 44 here?

Scuba
who's still waiting for a response on your chess contract.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pushing 55 is still +CEV but it's pretty thin. That one is acceptable to fold. I would fold 44.

Not sure what you mean about chess contract also...

[/ QUOTE ]

He asked in that long bio thread how you got a chess fellowship.

To Scuba (curtains should elaborate or something b/c he knows much more about it than I do):
The fellowship is consistently given out for the very best young chess player in America. The purpose is to allow players to fully devote themselves to acheiving greatness in a game that many of the young best drop out of b/c very little $ is involved. Curtains once was one of these individuals, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Now he just luckboxes at poker as we all know.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Yugoslav

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, while I agree with your comments, what pair is too small to continue forward? Would you play with 44 here?

Scuba
who's still waiting for a response on your chess contract.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pushing 55 is still +CEV but it's pretty thin. That one is acceptable to fold. I would fold 44.

Not sure what you mean about chess contract also...

[/ QUOTE ]

He asked in that long bio thread how you got a chess fellowship.

To Scuba (curtains should elaborate or something b/c he knows much more about it than I do):
These fellowship things are somewhat common for the very best young chess players in America. The purpose is to allow players to fully devote themselves to acheiving greatness in a game that many of the young best drop out of b/c very little $ is involved. Curtains once was one of these individuals, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Now he just luckboxes at poker as we all know.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

They are actually very uncommon, not sure how you thought they were commonly given out. It's called the Samford Fellowship and it's given out once per year to the "top" player under 25 years old (It's basically the subjective opinion of a few judges). It's the only thing of this nature in the United States, so I was pretty fortunate to win it.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Curtains, while I agree with your comments, what pair is too small to continue forward? Would you play with 44 here?

Scuba
who's still waiting for a response on your chess contract.

[/ QUOTE ]


Pushing 55 is still +CEV but it's pretty thin. That one is acceptable to fold. I would fold 44.

Not sure what you mean about chess contract also...

[/ QUOTE ]

He asked in that long bio thread how you got a chess fellowship.

To Scuba (curtains should elaborate or something b/c he knows much more about it than I do):
These fellowship things are somewhat common for the very best young chess players in America. The purpose is to allow players to fully devote themselves to acheiving greatness in a game that many of the young best drop out of b/c very little $ is involved. Curtains once was one of these individuals, /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Now he just luckboxes at poker as we all know.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

They are actually very uncommon, not sure how you thought they were commonly given out. It's called the Samford Fellowship and it's given out once per year to the "top" player under 25 years old (It's basically the subjective opinion of a few judges). It's the only thing of this nature in the United States, so I was pretty fortunate to win it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry I was misusing 'common.' I meant 'consistently' it's given out. I also thought there was another one. But that it seems that I am wrong about, /images/graemlins/frown.gif. Oh well, I was like 5 billionth under 25 /images/graemlins/tongue.gif.

Meh.

You guys all end up quitting chess for lucrative otherthings anyway.

But yes, we all know you pwn3d hardcore at chess....and still could if you wanted to.

Yugoslav