Does your company pay for your mistakes, or do you?

[Warik]

We have a salesperson who made a totally stupid mistake that cost the company $125, and the owner wants the employee to pay for it. It's a standing policy that has been enforced before, and is also enforced when a customer cancels an order and the salesperson has already been paid commission on it.

In a way, I agree with it because the company is losing money over something over a mistake that a even a child should be able to avoid, but I disagree because in principle, I think payroll should work in only one direction (employer's pocket to employee's pocket).

How does it work in your company?

[TheWorstPlayer]

When I make a mistake, my company pays for it (i.e. the project gets cancelled or the client gets mad but I still get paid) but if I make too many mistakes, I will get fired.

[gulebjorn]

Holy [censored], are you insane?

I used to drive a forklift truck for Interbrew. If I had to pay for all the cases of beer/coke/whatever that I broke, I'd be poor. And I worked there for two years, and got references as the best temp they ever employed over there.

You guys shouldn't be taking that kind of crap, because before you know it, they'll be taking your money too. What happens if someone crashes a company car? They have to work four months for free?

Don't you guys have a union or something?

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
We have a salesperson who made a totally stupid mistake that cost the company $125, and the owner wants the employee to pay for it. It's a standing policy that has been enforced before, and is also enforced when a customer cancels an order and the salesperson has already been paid commission on it.

In a way, I agree with it because the company is losing money over something over a mistake that a even a child should be able to avoid, but I disagree because in principle, I think payroll should work in only one direction (employer's pocket to employee's pocket).

How does it work in your company?

[/ QUOTE ]

he should only be required to pay back any commission that he was paid on if the loss caused an order to be cancelled or it caused you to lose a customer. Anything above that is not good for morale and is the cost of doing business.

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]
We have a salesperson who made a totally stupid mistake that cost the company $125, and the owner wants the employee to pay for it. It's a standing policy that has been enforced before, and is also enforced when a customer cancels an order and the salesperson has already been paid commission on it.

In a way, I agree with it because the company is losing money over something over a mistake that a even a child should be able to avoid, but I disagree because in principle, I think payroll should work in only one direction (employer's pocket to employee's pocket).

How does it work in your company?

[/ QUOTE ]

Charging back commissions when an order is cancelled is standard. If you don't have that policy, you'll be amazed at what happens to your ratio of cancellations to orders.

Mistakes are a different story. Its not standard to charge for "mistakes" though. The cost of repeated mistakes is typically the job, not fines.

The only place I know of where fines are commonplace are sports, where firing someone for breaking rules/making mistakes isn't really a good option since that talent is very hard to replace.

[obsidian]

Sounds like crap to me. You seem to forget that the company is making a profit from your labor. They should also pay for your mistakes. If they feel you make excessive mistakes, they can always replace you.

[swede123]

Being a consultant many times the client is the one who ends up paying for mistakes. If it's very significant stuff the company would write off the bill to the client, but obviously I'd still get paid my normal salary. That kind of stuff would result in lower or no bonuses as well as firing if it happened too frequently.

Swede

[swolfe]

i make slot machines. a couple months ago we put out an "enhanced tournament mode" that has some juiced up paytables to make it more fun. between a small bug in my software and the operator being a dipshit, one of these tournament mode paytables got into use in real money mode and ended up costing the casino over $30K in about 4 hours.

i didn't have to pay for that. i also blamed the QA department /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[sfer]

It would be funny to see a junior trader have to make my bank whole.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
Charging back commissions when an order is cancelled is standard. If you don't have that policy, you'll be amazed at what happens to your ratio of cancellations to orders.


[/ QUOTE ]

I get paid on the commission of my collections, not sales. So problems are usually resolved before we collect, or no collection is made. This also stops people from doing what you mentioned.

[James Boston]

[ QUOTE ]
I used to drive a forklift truck for Interbrew. If I had to pay for all the cases of beer/coke/whatever that I broke, I'd be poor.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a differnt scenario than a sales person getting paid on something that actually cost the company money, assuming he's commissioned. Minor accidents are generally expected.

[Warik]

Well, we normally have a cancelation penalty that should cover what the company was supposed to profit and what the salesperson was to make in commission, so that's not an issue. The issue is with employees doing things that are just plain incorrect and, through their own fault, end up costing the company money.

Some examples:
1. Misspelling customer names (or putting the wrong last names) when issuing airline tickets. The airlines are assholes and you have to buy new tickets when you screw up a name.

2. Making a reservation for the wrong room category only to find out 5 days before the trip that the correct room category is not available and the customer is stuck in the more expensive one.

3. Charging the customer the wrong price.

All basic stuff that obviously isn't the customer's fault and is obviously the sales agent's fault. I see the owner's point here but it's clearly demoralizing to have to pay for a $100+ mistake when you aren't making a fortune in income.

... and it also sucks cause I'm the one who has to write the memo. Doh!

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be funny to see a junior trader have to make my bank whole.

[/ QUOTE ]

hahahahahahaha.

[stripsqueez]

its a well established legal principle that an employer is vicariously liable for the negligent acts of an employee - unless the employee is acting outside the terms of his/her employment or in a criminal way then this protection should apply in some form

lots of employers try to avoid this legal position by trying to form a relationship with workers that is not an employer/employee type - that is why in this country and i suspect most common law countries that courts will consider the basis of such relationships without regard to what is written in a contract - ie if the relationship bears some of the usual indicia of an employer/employee relationship then it will be deemed to be such a relationship

in simple terms its nearly always bullsh1t for an employer to recover money from an employee for his/her negligent acts

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[James Boston]

In all 3 of those examples, the company should eat the loss and warn the employee. There's nothing demoralizing about knowing that being a constant screw-up will get you fired. It is demoralizing and stressful to fear that a rare, honest mistake will cost you most of your paycheck.

[J.R.]

you're nuts. the employer always has a right of contribution (at least in the US) from the employee even though the employer and the employee are jointly liable for the damages caused by the employee's negligence. employer's don't exercise it for practical/pr/moral/etc reaosns, but its there if they want to.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
you're nuts. the employer always has a right of contribution (at least in the US) from the employee even though the employer and the employee are jointly liable for the damages caused by the employee's negligence. employer's don't exercise it for practical/pr/moral/etc reaosns, but its there if they want to.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have no idea what the position is in the US - i'm surprised to hear it is as you say - certainly in several common law jurisdictions i know of it works as i suggest

it seems very wrong to me that an employer should have any right to recover from an employee for acts that occurred during the course of the employment

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[Victor]

i worked for a small independent siding company for a few years. we were required to pay for most kinds of screwups such as broken equipment and defects to the houses. i thought it was pretty fair as the boss only charged if we blatantly fed up and broke something. wear and tear on equipment was not included.

in a corporate setting this seams absolutely absurd though.

[OtisTheMarsupial]

[ QUOTE ]
When I make a mistake, my company pays for it (i.e. the project gets cancelled or the client gets mad but I still get paid) but if I make too many mistakes, I will get fired.

[/ QUOTE ]