Good raise?

[Olback]

$33 sng.

This is a situation i am having problems with all the time. I have a reasonable stack and a reasonable stealing hand. Should i fold this preflop? Or should i raise all in? Or was my play correct?

I should mention that BB had just won a big pot last hand. He was also kind of loose, but not maniac loose.

Any advice would be appreciated

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t1465)
BB (t2595)
UTG (t65)
MP (t750)
Hero (t1340)
Button (t1785)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t300</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls t200.

Flop: (t650) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t350</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1000

[lastchance]

Very Standard.

Also note if BB checks to me, as happens much of the time, I'm pushing the flop.

[Olback]

So if checked to you, you push any flop? Or just this flop?

[Nottom]

Most flops, I might check behind on something real ugly like an AJ9 flop.

[lastchance]

Yeah.

I pretty much need an ace or a monotone board to check behind here. Even then, I'm probably still pushing.

Those are only things that come up where I'm not pushing a flop (if BB doesn't lead out).

[curtains]

You played fine. Contrary to what some might say, folding here isn't terrible. I would never fold here, but it's not going to kill you in this spot.

I raise to 275 preflop and then fold just as you did to the flop bet, thus I play it basically the exact same way.

[Olback]

If he checks to you, do u bet all in?

[curtains]

Yes. Main reason is that you could make a pot commiting type of bet like 400-500, and then be checkraised allin. However if your opponent has some crap like 99/AT or whatever (or even a flush draw), then you will still win the hand like 25% of the time and its very annoying to fold with so many chips in the pot. So yeah in this spot I'd just move allin.

Again, if you move allin and get called, you will win like 20-25% of the time against a lot of hands that call you.

[DJ Sensei]

[ QUOTE ]
$33 sng.

Flop: (t650) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t350</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1000

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who considers pushing here even after the BB bets? The half pot bet from the BB looks very much like a "do you just have high cards, or is there an overcard to your PP" probe bet. I play at the 33's, and its a bet that I both see and make often, particularly as a big stack against a medium stack. Not to mention that (as previously mentioned by several posters) against most legitimate hands that bet out this flop and will call to a push (AT, flush draw), you still have drawing outs.

thoughts anyone?

[Olback]

If i check raised him al in it would ahve only been 650 back to him.Do you think he would fold for that much even with a,10o etc?

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
$33 sng.

Flop: (t650) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t350</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: t1000

[/ QUOTE ]

Am I the only one who considers pushing here even after the BB bets? The half pot bet from the BB looks very much like a "do you just have high cards, or is there an overcard to your PP" probe bet. I play at the 33's, and its a bet that I both see and make often, particularly as a big stack against a medium stack. Not to mention that (as previously mentioned by several posters) against most legitimate hands that bet out this flop and will call to a push (AT, flush draw), you still have drawing outs.

thoughts anyone?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pushing is always something to consider in a spot like this.

[tigerite]

You could push in this spot, but you still have 10bb and are likely to be called, and behind, so I don't think it's worth it. Just think of it as a steal that failed.

[Olback]

Surely a play like that requires a good read though right? I mean if it is only 650 back to him he is unlikley to fold unless he has hit nothing.

But it might be a good idea as i figured he was weak. How often would he fold to the all in raise though?

Isn't this play a bit reckless i.e no draw, my only hope if called is to a miracle runner, runner or a king or queen

[durron597]

I'm lost on what to do in spots like this as well. With a read, I have been known to push here.

The issue is, the BB only made a half pot bet, which is very difficult for you to continue with unless you have a PP. But your CO hand range is much wider than a PP, which makes the BB flop bet every time the flop comes uncoordinated rags.

This is why paying close attention to:

1) Relative Stack sizes
2) Your M
3) Table image

is so important. 90% of the time I raise KQo from the CO. This is not one of those times, because I *know* that the BB will call with a wide range and I will be forced to fold the flop 70% of the time.

The reason why it's not profitable for the BB to play this way at lower blind levels is because the times he picks up 70-100 chips from you aren't really worth the times you hit your hand. But you can only lose 300 chips so many times.

One final note: I don't fold AJ in this situation and I come over the top allin to his half pot bet (against the type of player in your OP). The reason why KQ is different is that I see this play most often with Ace-rag, and I've seen Ace-rag call the allin too.

[curtains]

btw I just said that you should think about it, it doesnt mean you should do it. But okay whenever someone cold calls you from the blind and makes a weak bet after the flop, they may be bluffing. It's quite possible he could have nothing, and you will probably win at least 25% of the time that he does have something, unless his top pair/pair includes a king or a queen. Just because he looks pot committed because its only 650 more doesn't mean anything, as it's hard to call with nothing on the flop, no matter what the price is.

I'd still fold, but it could be that raising is better.

[bigt439]

[ QUOTE ]
If i check raised him al in it would ahve only been 650 back to him.Do you think he would fold for that much even with a,10o etc?

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't check raise in position here. 650 more is actually a fair amount considering what it would do to his stack, but yes if he has any piece (flush draw, tp, maybe second pair, etc.) he's calling. You have to judge how often you think it's total air and that is completely player dependent. By the way I don't think I have ever encountered a player that would fold AT to your push in this situation.

[Nottom]

I will often come over the top of people that bet into me, but in this case I think its a fold.

If the guy had bet out for 200-250, pushing would be a much more serious option.