.50/1 6-max turn play [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

popeye18

07-11-2005, 03:48 AM

No real reads but utg hasnt done anything bad to note in 5 or 6 orbits.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, MP calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, MP calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG bets, MP folds, Hero raises, UTG calls.

River: (9.25 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.25 BB

Ignore the preflop call it was a misclick(seriously). Was waiting for the turn to raise here a good idea? Your thoughts?

newfant

07-11-2005, 03:52 AM

I like the preflop call. I would probably raise the flop and then just call down from there if UTG keeps betting into me.

aK13

07-11-2005, 04:08 AM

Preflop cold call sucks.

Raise the flop.

adsman

07-11-2005, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
No real reads but utg hasnt done anything bad to note in 5 or 6 orbits .

[/ QUOTE ]

That's like 50 hands. How many hands do you need to make a read? On another note, what hands are you putting villian on?

zephed

07-11-2005, 06:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call sucks.

Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You consistently give correct advice. I hope you don't play 3/6 sh. (you'll steal my fishy's money!)

I don't think I'd ever cold call this preflop. If villain has too high of pfr%, I'm 3-betting to isolate + value. Letting this get 3-way is bad. You need to maximize the frequency that you hold top pair on the flop.

Otherwise it's mucked.

Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

silkyslim

07-11-2005, 06:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
How does this raise protect? (not saying it is incorrect)

Nfinity

07-11-2005, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
How does this raise protect? (not saying it is incorrect)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think your raising for protection as much as it's a value raise

aK13

07-11-2005, 06:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call sucks.

Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You consistently give correct advice. I hope you don't play 3/6 sh. (you'll steal my fishy's money!)

I don't think I'd ever cold call this preflop. If villain has too high of pfr%, I'm 3-betting to isolate + value. Letting this get 3-way is bad. You need to maximize the frequency that you hold top pair on the flop.

Otherwise it's mucked.

Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

As Nfinity said, it is for value.

Also, I do play 3/6 6m, but as it seems, its full of 2+2 TAGs, so I may move up to 5/10, even though my roll is kinda small for it.

adsman

07-11-2005, 06:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call sucks.

Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You consistently give correct advice. I hope you don't play 3/6 sh. (you'll steal my fishy's money!)

I don't think I'd ever cold call this preflop. If villain has too high of pfr%, I'm 3-betting to isolate + value. Letting this get 3-way is bad. You need to maximize the frequency that you hold top pair on the flop.

Otherwise it's mucked.

Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

As Nfinity said, it is for value.

Also, I do play 3/6 6m, but as it seems, its full of 2+2 TAGs, so I may move up to 5/10, even though my roll is kinda small for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful dude.

aK13

07-11-2005, 07:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Preflop cold call sucks.

Raise the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]
You consistently give correct advice. I hope you don't play 3/6 sh. (you'll steal my fishy's money!)

I don't think I'd ever cold call this preflop. If villain has too high of pfr%, I'm 3-betting to isolate + value. Letting this get 3-way is bad. You need to maximize the frequency that you hold top pair on the flop.

Otherwise it's mucked.

Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

As Nfinity said, it is for value.

Also, I do play 3/6 6m, but as it seems, its full of 2+2 TAGs, so I may move up to 5/10, even though my roll is kinda small for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Careful dude.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I'm slightly under-rolled...about 250BBs, but I'm planning to 2 table it for a bit to get a feel for what it's like in comparison with 3/6, so I shouldn't have too much problem.

adsman

07-11-2005, 07:37 AM

Hope you crack it. I'm back to sitting down at .50/1 since I received a $7500 tax bill that I had no idea was coming because my fecking accountant is a dipshit. Sometimes Italy really sucks.

zephed

07-11-2005, 07:40 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise the flop to protect your vulnerable top pair hand.

[/ QUOTE ]
How does this raise protect? (not saying it is incorrect)

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I mixed up my terms. Raise for value while we still have it.

imported_The Vibesman

07-11-2005, 09:40 AM

At first I didn't mind waiting, but I'm wondering how it affects the turn play if an overcard does fall. If you wait, but raise the turn regardless, you may get 3bet on the turn if your opponent has hit his hand. If you raise the flop and your opponent hits the turn he will probably checkraise you, costing you 1 bet less to get to showdown. He may even go passive with a better hand. If you wait and then turn passive if an overcard falls, you may miss bets with the best hand.
I think you should avoid all that and raise the flop. There aren't that many cards that can come to ruin your hand, just the J, Q, K or anything that completes an unlikely str8 draw.
And you said preflop was a misclick, but this hand does play a lot better if you 3bet preflop. This can also be a fold most of the time against an UTG raiser if that raiser is a tight, solid player, esp. w/ a coldcaller in. It helps to get to know your opponents raising standards ASAP, try to note every hand he raises with, esp. the non-standard ones.

droolie

07-11-2005, 10:23 AM

Why did you want to wait until the turn? Do you have a rational reason or did it seem like the thing to do at the time? Were you waiting to make sure no J, Q or K fell?

You are three handed and have a caller in the middle. This is a very good example of why we raise the flop. You let the guy in the middle see the turn cheaply and wound up HU with the aggressor on the turn before you got a chance for your raise. This is a basic value raise and should be standard for you. You might be behind the raiser but you really want to get the money from the caller who you almost certainly are ahead of.

Waiting for the turn is way overused and very often incorrect. You only gain by waiting if your equity edge is small and things are highly likely to change dramatically on the turn. Relative position on the raiser helps as well as being able to shift the pot odds to drive ouit gutshots and 5 outers on scary boards.

Sightless

07-11-2005, 10:29 AM

Id either raise or fold preflop

but I could be wrong so don't listen to me

McGahee

07-11-2005, 10:44 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn is way overused and very often incorrect.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you mean it's overused by LL players in general I agree. If you mean it's overused by people on this forum I disagree. There are a lot of "push your miniscule flop edge" robotic statements in regards to hands where it's clearly correct to see a safe turn first.
I agree that this is not one of those hands. You definitely want to raise the flop without a read. An typical unknown .5/1 villian has conservative PFR standards, probably isn't betting into 2 opponents on the turn with an UI AK, and there's a good chance you're just costing yourself more $ by raising the turn with a pair of T's.

Jaran

07-11-2005, 01:06 PM

Where in Italy are you? I just got back from four months in Rome and loved it (of course I didn't have to pay any taxes to the Italian govt.)

-Jaran

Sorry for the hijack

adsman

07-11-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Where in Italy are you? I just got back from four months in Rome and loved it (of course I didn't have to pay any taxes to the Italian govt.)

-Jaran

Sorry for the hijack

[/ QUOTE ]

Up in the Alps near Trento. I've been rafting up here for 6 years. They just changed their tax system and forgot to tell me. Rome rocks. I was there in November for the New Zealand-Italy rugby game. No poker here though, unlike you lucky buggers in the States.

bottomset

07-11-2005, 02:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I do play 3/6 6m, but as it seems, its full of 2+2 TAGs

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't had trouble finding donkeys that want to donate, still a fairly passive game

the swings in 5/10 are much greater than any limit below it, ask Entity

VBM

07-11-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn is way overused and very often incorrect. You only gain by waiting if your equity edge is small and things are highly likely to change dramatically on the turn. Relative position on the raiser helps as well as being able to shift the pot odds to drive ouit gutshots and 5 outers on scary boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the 1st part, but i think that the 2nd part there is another situation to wait to raise the turn: When your equity is very high and a turn is likely not to hurt you.

e.g. you have 77 and the flop is
K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

a set on a drawless board if you have an EP aggressor is a fun situation to raise the turn on.

droolie

07-11-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Waiting for the turn is way overused and very often incorrect. You only gain by waiting if your equity edge is small and things are highly likely to change dramatically on the turn. Relative position on the raiser helps as well as being able to shift the pot odds to drive ouit gutshots and 5 outers on scary boards.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree with the 1st part, but i think that the 2nd part there is another situation to wait to raise the turn: When your equity is very high and a turn is likely not to hurt you.

e.g. you have 77 and the flop is
K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

a set on a drawless board if you have an EP aggressor is a fun situation to raise the turn on.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a classic slowplay not really a wait until the turn to raise. Let's not get started on slowplays. LOL! Talk about overused but rarely correct plays... although slowplaying at 6-max is incredibly common. Since pots tend to be smaller going into the turn it is more frequently correct to slowplay at 6-max than in full-ring. One thing you will learn is that bad players love to slowplay thier monsters at 6-max.

tiltaholic

07-11-2005, 03:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One thing you will learn is that bad players love to slowplay thier monsters at 6-max.

[/ QUOTE ]

and they fastplay garbage.
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Flop: (4 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8 BB

Results below:
Hero has As Qh (one pair, eights).
BB has 3s 5d (one pair, eights).
Outcome: Hero wins 8 BB. woot.

Aaron W.

07-11-2005, 03:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
No real reads but utg hasnt done anything bad to note in 5 or 6 orbits .

[/ QUOTE ]

That's like 50 hands. How many hands do you need to make a read? On another note, what hands are you putting villian on?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh... it's 6 max, so it's more like 30 hands. But I still agree that Hero should have a sense of UTG by now. At the bare minimum, he should know if villain is passive or aggressive preflop.