PLO8 $400 Pushing AA

[emptyshell]

Is this the standard way to play AA or crazy LAG?

v1 is kind of a crazy player. I think he's bad but I also think I'm not all that good, so what do I know?

$400 PL Omaha Hi/Lo
folder2 ( $66.07 ), folder4 ( $1112.1 ), Hero ( $536.6 ),
folder5 ( $412.25 ), v1 ( $493.8 ), folder3 ( $207.33 ),
folder1 ( $519.28 )

Dealt to Hero [ A/images/graemlins/heart.gif 4/images/graemlins/club.gif 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif ]

folder1 posts small blind [$2].
v1 posts big blind [$4].
Hero calls [$4], folder5 folds, folder4 folds,
folder3 calls [$4], folder2 calls [$4], folder1 calls [$2],
v1 raises [$20], Hero raises [$80], folder3 folds,
folder2 folds, folder1 folds, v1 calls [$60]

FLOP: (177.00) [ 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
v1 checks, Hero bets [$177], v1 calls [$177]

TURN: (531.00) [ K/images/graemlins/spade.gif ]
v1 is all-In [$232.8]
Hero calls [$232.8]


Results in white below:
<font color="#FFFFFF">

RIVER: (996.60) [ Qc ]



v1 shows [ 5c, 9h, 2c, As ] a flush, queen high.
Hero shows [ Ah, 4c, 8s, Ad ] a pair of aces.

v1 wins $996.6 from the main pot with a flush, queen high.
There was no qualifying low hand.

</font>

[gergery]

sorry reposted cause i didn't read closely enough.

I play it the same, except I bet smaller on the flop, mainly because if he's going to fold for $177 then he'll fold for 145 or so, and that let's me either get away if a terrible turn card hits (not applicable here since pot so big), or make a larger bet in relation to the pot on the turn when a draw he has misses -- which usually won't help, but might occasionally.

[Jorge10]

Heres the problem from where I see it, this is a full table and he is clearly a maniac. Against maniacs the best way to deal with them is not to gamble with them, but use their own aggression to trap them in situations where they are drawing dead or close to it. Reraising with a weak A/A is pretty much pot commiting you all the way I mean when you made the reraise preflop every other street pretty much played itself, you had to call all his money and hope for the best. Not the best course of action against a maniac. I would have called and then seen how the flop came. That being said, thats a pretty good flop, you would have put him all in on the turn anyway, sometimes luck just sucks not much else to say really.

[emptyshell]

Limp re-raise UTG is not a good alternative to raising? It seems like I want to get this hand heads up and play it very fast. Most likely I will not get another A nor will I have the nut low on the flop, which would make it difficult to play unless most of the money goes in pf. Raising UTG won't get much money in nor drive many people out.

[Wintermute]

Looks fine to me, I play AA much the same way (esp the preflop limp-reraise, no other way to do it). You could try to make a case for folding on the turn depending on the other guy's stats, but getting 3:1 you only have to catch an idiot betting 2 pair or less one in four times. In my experience, that is easily accomplished. In this case, assuming you have a read that this player is not a rock, I play the hand exactly the same.

Looks like you've been running pretty rough in the $400 game, but it's not because of horrible decision making, trust me.

[Chamonyx]

I have great respect for some of the previous posters, but how about a different p-o-v:

Pre-flop raise is OK and succeeds in isolating. He had already raised into you so you put him on at least one black ace.

Horrible flop for you, take the free card planning to pot it (any red card, any low card other than a 4) or bale out depending on the turn.

Worst possible turn for you even before his bet - no low and 2 flush draws - He could be even money. Fold to his bet and chalk the $80 up to a(nother) lesson on why AA suck in PLO8

[Phat Mack]

[ QUOTE ]
I have great respect for some of the previous posters, but how about a different p-o-v:

Pre-flop raise is OK and succeeds in isolating. He had already raised into you so you put him on at least one black ace.

Horrible flop for you, take the free card planning to pot it (any red card, any low card other than a 4) or bale out depending on the turn.

Worst possible turn for you even before his bet - no low and 2 flush draws - He could be even money. Fold to his bet and chalk the $80 up to a(nother) lesson on why AA suck in PLO8

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this, except that I dump it on the turn unless (maybe) a red deuce comes, in which case I might try and show it down cheaply. Overplaying AAxx in PLO8 is something you've got to learn not to do (people are perfectly willing to give you their stacks in PLO8--no need to rush them).

Does anybody like v1's move on the turn with the dry As and club blockers? He was probably a little surprised by the call and even more surprised when his clubs were good.

[Wintermute]

[ QUOTE ]
I have great respect for some of the previous posters, but how about a different p-o-v:

... and chalk the $80 up to a(nother) lesson on why AA suck in PLO8

[/ QUOTE ]

Different points of view are what the forum is all about, and there certainly are times to lose AA on the flop. In fact, this is a reasonable hand to say one ought to fold AA (although I disagree, I can see the point of view).

However, saying "AA sucks in PLO8" is so wrong, I just can't let it slide. AAxx is the best hand in PLO8, hands down. This is indisputable and frankly anyone who disagrees either doesn't keep accurate stats or is misplaying the hand. My hunch is that you (and others that share this viewpoint) are just saying this because AAxx in PLO8 is not as strong (relatively) as AA in HE, and/or you're just uncomfortable betting large amounts of money on what sometimes amounts to a two-card hand in a four-card game. It's something you ought to address, because being aggressive with AAxx in PLO8 is a big part of your win rate.

[Chamonyx]

Thank you for calling me on the sloppy language. Let me try to be more precise - and please feel free to shoot, I am here to learn.

AAxy can be a very strong hand or a marginal, fit &amp; fold drawing hand - depending on x &amp; y (see below). The second 2 groups generally seem to be over played (25-400 buy in &amp; equivalents), especially post flop.

Strong:
A&lt;x&lt;y&lt;6 (but not 5,6 unless double suited)
x&lt;=3
x&lt;=4, 1 or 2 suits with A
x&lt;=4, y=&gt;T
x=y=2 or 3
T&lt;=x&lt;=y&lt;=K

Aggressive pre-flop then Fit/Fold:
x=y=4,5,6,7,8,9
x=4,5, y&gt;6 (unless double suited)
double suited
x=A, y=2,3,4

Call Flop then Fit/Fold:
the rest

Shoot......