Some post-flop play.

[suited_ace]

I don't have any reads on Villain, but I really didn't like the min-raise.

What do you usually do in this spot?


Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t855)
Hero (t730)
Button (t755)
SB (t745)
BB (t1015)
UTG (t755)
UTG+1 (t1445)
MP1 (t955)
MP2 (t745)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t30, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Hero calls t30, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB checks.

Flop: (t105) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, BB folds, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises to t200</font>, Hero ?

[Bigwig]

Yeah, I don't like it either. For starters, I wouldn't have put a pot sized bet out there. I can't see any reason for it.

[lastchance]

Get AK to fold or pay you off. Find out whether your hand is good or not. But you could have easily fired 1/2 pot or 2/3 pot and done the same thing. (which is what I would have done).

And you fold to the minraise because the guy probably has you beat.

[suited_ace]

I folded to his min-raise, *and* I hated myself for the pot-sized bet. By betting so much I gave him the perfect bluffing opportunity.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I folded to his min-raise, *and* I hated myself for the pot-sized bet. By betting so much I gave him the perfect bluffing opportunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a good chance you folded best hand. First off, bet less than the pot on this board. Unfortunately, it's not flush coordinated, so it's not fair to assume that even if you had a T, you'd be worried. So I'd bet T70.

Anyway, the way you played it, these are the likely hands your opponent has:

A) Lower pocket pair, lower than yours.
B) Two overs
C) 7x
D) Tx
E) 77
F) 89
G) Complete bluff

No real order to this list. Anyway, if I had a T (or 77), I'd be more inclined to just CALL your bet. If I had a hand like 89, 7x, or a pocket pair, I'd be more inclined to raise your bet. Just trying to put myself in villains' shoes.

The more I think about this hand, I think I like the big bet by hero. Assuming your opponent is a thinking player, and would be more inclined to call (vs. raise) a big hand, I think a push is in order here.

Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Any thoughts?

Scuba

[lastchance]

The minraise is almost exactly what I'd do with a T (t250 to make it less fishy). Any mediocre hand is simply not worth calling here do to the huge amount of reverse implied odds, like QQ-88, or a 7. So you raise here, because a mediocre hand is not going to be comfortable seeing a turn.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
The minraise is almost exactly what I'd do with a T (t250 to make it less fishy). Any mediocre hand is simply not worth calling here due to the huge amount of reverse implied odds, like QQ-88, or a 7. So you raise here, because a mediocre hand is not going to be comfortable seeing a turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you're saying a hand like QQ-88, 7x will fold here?

[lastchance]

Okay, better arguments.

First, OP is not firing the turn or river on bluffs after getting called. If he was, he's giving you his stack almost 90% of the time anyway. (if he wasn't a 2+2er)

Second, great players should recognize that no hand is worth calling here that isn't KK-AA, a T, or 7's full. Admittedly your opponents aren't good, so this point, the original one, is pretty moot.

Third, if it's very likely your opponent has a PP or 7x. These hands are going to be able to fold if an ace hits, a jack hits, or some other card. Most people won't fold right now to a raise to t250, planning to push a nonscary turn.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, better arguments.

First, OP is not firing the turn or river on bluffs after getting called. If he was, he's giving you his stack almost 90% of the time anyway. (if he wasn't a 2+2er)

Second, great players should recognize that no hand is worth calling here that isn't KK-AA, a T, or 7's full. Admittedly your opponents aren't good, so this point, the original one, is pretty moot.

Third, if it's very likely your opponent has a PP or 7x. These hands are going to be able to fold if an ace hits, a jack hits, or some other card. Most people won't fold right now to a raise to t250, planning to push a nonscary turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I didn't make this clear. Push the flop.

[microbet]

I have a hard time believing there are 4 tens in a deck, but I can believe there are 3.

I would probably bet 1/2 pot and fold to reraise.

If I fold the best hand, oh well, I'm probably folding the best hand a lot at this point.

I guess if it were a $215 and big bad-ass plays were what separates the men from the boys, then call the raise and lead out on the turn; looks more like you got something yourself.

I'm bored, sleepy, playing 4 tables, and drinking a bit so I reserve the right to retract anything I just said, whatever it was. (just regular drinking, not pergesu drinking or anything)

[lastchance]

Wow, my communication sucks.

I made that post from Villain's perspective, to say why Villain would have raised a ten here.

At the same time, I'm also questioning not pushing after the raise, especially since only a T or higher PP beats you.

At a $22, I guess you push and pray after making a t70 bet.

[Scuba Chuck]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a hard time believing there are 4 tens in a deck, but I can believe there are 3.

I would probably bet 1/2 pot and fold to reraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I think this is what OP, in hindsight, wishes he did do. At least with the 1/2 pot sized bet.

[ QUOTE ]
If I fold the best hand, oh well, I'm probably folding the best hand a lot at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ultimately, we need to decide if this is true. If you're folding the best hand a lot at this point, wouldn't you agree then that this is a leak?

[microbet]

[ QUOTE ]
Ultimately, we need to decide if this is true. If you're folding the best hand a lot at this point, wouldn't you agree then that this is a leak?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm still a believer in the diminishing value of additional chips and that you have to be some combination of a little more than just ahead or a little more sure that you are ahead than you would be in a cash game.

There are also just lots of spots like A8 in MP early in the tourney, where you likely have the best hand, but you have no implied odds because you are unlikely to be able to play strongly if you it a pair, so it's not worth it.

[lastchance]

But you can completely throw implied odds out the window, because the pot's big enough where you can push.

[suited_ace]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I think about this hand, I think I like the big bet by hero. Assuming your opponent is a thinking player, and would be more inclined to call (vs. raise) a big hand, I think a push is in order here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the more I think about this hand, the more I think I should've pushed.

[adanthar]

It's been a while since I've played the 800 chip SNG's, but I believe I would (after betting less) almost always fold to this CR.

You're all greatly overthinking this hand. Most of the time back when I played them, the thought process of an average donkey would go like this: "I have a T and he bet a lot, I'll raise".

[jcm4ccc]

A couple of people have suggested a "half-pot" raise on the flop, and a fold to a reraise. That way, you lose less, and supposedly you accomplish the same thing.

This advice is given so often that, if I'm ever playing against a 2+2er, I'm going to come over any 1/2 pot raise. Even if that advice wasn't given, a 1/2 pot raise looks either weak or like a monster. But it doesn't look the same as a 3/4 pot raise:

Pot: 100
Half-pot raise: 50
3/4 pot raise: 75

Pot: 200
1/2 pot raise: 100
3/4 pot raise: 150

Pot: 300
1/2 pot raise: 150
3/4 pot raise: 225

The difference in chips is not much between a 1/2 pot raise and a 3/4 pot raise, but the raise looks a lot weaker (or hiding a monster) IMO. So I don't think the two raises are interchangeable.

In this particular instance, a raise of 50 chips is almost a minraise. I would either bet 75-80 chips, or I would check.

[microbet]

I was just getting into general reasons why what may well be the best hand can be thrown away.

In this case I think there is a good enough chance you don't have the best hand.