25 Bellagio 8-16 hands with Clarky (long and boring)

[Clarkmeister]

This Monday I met up with 2+2 lurker/poster rharless and played about 3 hours of 8-16 with her. She thought it might be interesting to post some hands from the session, so here are 25 key hands from that session. Pretty much every other hand was a fold, but I don't take table notes and I may have forgotten something. Thankfully the memory is pretty good. rharless is on my immediate right, which is unfortunate because I prefer having the tight/aggressive players on my left.

Hand #1: I open raise KdJd on the button. SB folds, Tightish/passivish BB calls. Flop is Js 7s 2d. Check-bet-call. Turn is 5s. BB bets, I mistakenly don't grab enough chips and call, but I wanted to raise. Grrrrr. River is Ac, check-bet-fold.

Hand #2: Very next hand. I have KsJc in the CO and open raise and steal the blinds.

Hand #3: EP limps, Solid Asian kid raises, I 3 bet with red QQ, all fold to EP who calls, SAK calls. Flop JcTc5c. Checked to me, I bet, EP raises all in, SAK folds, I call. I flip my cards over, two small non clubs come and my hand is good. EP doesn't show.

Hand #4: In the BB with 9c2c vs 4 limpers. Flop is Ac 5c 3d. I bet, Loose but straightforward old man calls, another call. turn is Th, I bet, old man calls, other folds. River 5h, Old man starts to shake his head in disgust, I bet, he folds.

Hand #5: Mediocre local open limps in MP, I limp in the CO with QsTd, Ultra weak tight button calls, SB folds, BB checks. Flop 9h6h3c. Checked to me, I bet, Button calls, others fold. Turn is 4d. Checked through. River is 4c. I bet, button folds.

Hand #6: I open raise in CO+1 with 9Ts. BB calls. Flop is 652 rainbow. BB checks, I bet, BB folds KQo face up.

Hand #7: I post in the CO after a walk. 2 limpers to me, I check with QJo, SB comes along and BB knuckles. Flop is J86 with a flush draw. Weakish BB bets, folded to me, i raise, BB calls. Turn is a Q, check-bet-call, River is offsuit 5, check-bet-call, my hand is good, BB indicates I needed the turn card but doesn't show.

Hand #8: 3 limpers to me in my BB with 82o. Flop is Q52 rainbow. Checked to aggressive local who bets last to act. I checkraise, everyone folds.

Hand #9: New player is posting in MP. I raise KK UTG and steal all 3 blinds.

hand #10: I raise 77 UTG. Same old man as hand #4 cold calls, others fold. Flop is AQ4. I bet, old man calls. Turn is a 3. I bet, old man folds.

Hand #11: I limp 2nd in with K9s. Reasonable player raises in MP. Headsup. Flop is QQJ with one of my suit. check-bet-call. Turn is an offsuit 5. I check and fold.

Hand #12: Folded to me in MP with 22 and I think of Andy Fox and fold.

Hand #13: I limp UTG with 33. Solid Asian Kid from hand #3 who had moved to my immediate left, and rharless on my right both look at me and start making wisecracks about me limping. SAK limps, 3 others limp. Flop is AhTcTs. Straightforward old man from above grabs his chips. Checked to him, he bets, we all fold.

Hand #14: I don't rember the details, but I 3 bet someone with QQ in my SB and won the hand without a showdown.

The next 3 hands occurred back to back to back.

Hand #15: I raise with KK UTG +2. Some talk at the table breaks out and old man forgets its on him at the button. He kind of eyes me and I say something like...hurry up and decide, I can't remember what I have anymore. He kind of shrugs with a "WTF" look and calls. BB calls. I make a big show of trying to remember my cards as I look back to pick up the suits. Flop is JT5 rainbow. Checked to me, I Bet, both call. Turn is a King. Checked to me, I bet, both call. River is a 9. Checked to me, I check (big mistake IMO), Old man bets, BB folds, I call and he shows me Q7s.

Hand #16: I open raise AJs UTG+1 and steal the blinds.

Hand #17: I open raise AQo UTG. People are visibly irritated with me. One cold caller and folded to button. I had played with button a few days prior and he is a habitual bluffer, and will take frequent shots, especially with position. He eyes me, makes some comment about "you can't have that many hands in a row." and finally calls. Blinds fold. Flop is T83 with 2 hearts, I have Ah. I bet, MP calls, button raises, I call, MP calls. Turn is 5s. I check, MP checks, button bets, I think there is a good shot I have button beat but I'm not sure about MP. I checkraise. MP folds. River is a Jack (no flush possible). I bet, button hesitates and calls. I lose to QTo. MP starts bitching that I moved him off AJ on the turn. Button starts giving lessons about how lucky he got to hit a 3 outer. I say I thought I had his Ace Deuce beat.

Hand #18: I raise UTG with 99. Folded to same aggressive button who 3 bets. Folded to me and I call. Flop is Q 9 8 rainbow. check, check. Turn is 2. bet-call. River is a 6. Bet-call. I beat his unimproved ATs.

Hand #19: rharless open raises on the button. I am in the SB with QJo. Normally I 3 bet, but I decide to be a sociable fellow and fold. She later says she had 9Ts.

Hand #20: I open raise with KQo UTG +2 (got all my good hands in EP this session, what can I say?). Fish who replaced tighty cold calls on my immediate left, others fold. Flop is T95, I bet, fish calls. Turn is 8, I bet, fish calls. River 7, bet, call, the nuts are good.

Hand #21: Decent local raises a limper from MP, I fold AQo on button. Decent local had JTo and turned top two pair. Time to reevaluete my definition of "decent" maybe? Nah, just one of those "WTF" plays from him I think.

Hand #22: I open raise on the button with 22 and steal the blinds.

hand #23: Fishy limps UTG, Decent player raises in CO, I smoothcall with AKo in BB. 3 ways. Flop KQ8. I checkraise the CO, fishy thinks for an eternity and calls, CO calls. Turn is a Jack. I bet, both call. River is a 9. I bet, fishy calls, CO folds. I lose to Fishy's K9o. I can only surmise that CO had AQ or AJ.

Hand #24: I open raise UTG with AJs. Fishy and another come along, rharless folds AQo in BB (yippee). I bet the flop and turn and check the river on a final board of TT566 and win against fishy's KQo.

Hand #25: I open raise UTG+1 with QTs. Folded to aggressive guy in SB who looks at me, hesitates and folds KTo face up. BB folds and I take the blinds.

I rack up next hand.

[Vehn]

Since I'm bored too

Hand #5: Mediocre local open limps in MP, I limp in the CO with QsTd

Who are you?

Hand #11: I limp 2nd in with K9s.

Who are you?

Hand #17: I open raise AQo UTG. People are visibly irritated with me. One cold caller and folded to button. I had played with button a few days prior and he is a habitual bluffer, and will take frequent shots, especially with position. He eyes me, makes some comment about "you can't have that many hands in a row." and finally calls. Blinds fold. Flop is T83 with 2 hearts, I have Ah. I bet, MP calls, button raises, I call, MP calls. Turn is 5s. I check, MP checks, button bets, I think there is a good shot I have button beat but I'm not sure about MP. I checkraise. MP folds. River is a Jack (no flush possible). I bet, button hesitates and calls. I lose to QTo. MP starts bitching that I moved him off AJ on the turn. Button starts giving lessons about how lucky he got to hit a 3 outer. I say I thought I had his Ace Deuce beat.

I wouldn't say s---.

Hand #20: I open raise with KQo UTG +2 (got all my good hands in EP this session, what can I say?). Fish who replaced tighty cold calls on my immediate left, others fold. Flop is T95, I bet, fish calls. Turn is 8, I bet, fish calls. River 7, bet, call, the nuts are good.

Musta been pretty fishy to call with the nuts cause you got king high.

hand #23: Fishy limps UTG, Decent player raises in CO, I smoothcall with AKo in BB. 3 ways. Flop KQ8. I checkraise the CO, fishy thinks for an eternity and calls, CO calls. Turn is a Jack. I bet, both call. River is a 9. I bet, fishy calls, CO folds. I lose to Fishy's K9o. I can only surmise that CO had AQ or AJ.

I would always 3 bet based on your description of players and their postions.

Hand #24: I open raise UTG with AJs. Fishy and another come along, rharless folds AQo in BB (yippee). I bet the flop and turn and check the river on a final board of TT566 and win against fishy's KQo.

I almost always bet the river.




Is it wrong for me to say the following is why I play poker:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Hand #17: I open raise AQo UTG. People are visibly irritated with me.

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

wish my 8/16 was as soft/weak as you describe yours to be. Guess I'm gonna have a good time in vegas.

[JTG51]

I've only read the first 14 so far. I can only digest so much at a time when Conan is on.

Hand 5: I think raising preflop with QT from the cutoff is probably a better play after a weak limper. I've been making this kind of play a lot lately, with quite a bit of success.

Hand 8: I'm assuming the button was a 'must bet when checked to on the button' type. If so, I really like your play.

Hand 10: Was the game getting tightish? Obviously raising 77 UTG isn't the default play, I'm curious about your reasons here. Given that you did, I like the post flop play.

Hand 11: I remember you saying before that you decided K9s is very playable. I'm not convinced about limping with it after 1 limper, but I'll defer to you. I haven't put a lot of thought/study into it. I don't like the flop call though. I wouldn't call for the gutshot, backdoor flush and overcard. It's hard to imagine your overcard has much value. What was your plan if you hit a K or a 9?

Hand 12: "I think of Andy Fox and fold." Did you at least try to only look at one of your cards before you folded? /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[JTG51]

Hand 19: "Normally I 3 bet, but I decide to be a sociable fellow and fold." Nothing wrong with that, especially against another 2+2er. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Hand 20: "I open raise with KQo." Good. I think I raise KQ more than most people. Is this hand a typo though?

Hand 23: I'd usually 3 bet AK here. Did you smooth call planning on check raising any flop? I think that'd be a pretty good plan, since decent player doesn't have to have much of a hand, especially if he was decent enough to notice that fishy was fishy.

[Clarkmeister]

Yes, good catch by vehn and yourself. I did have the nuts in the KQ hand, I just typo'd the hand. Had the nuts on the turn after flopping open ended.

I'm hitting the sack, I'll comment on your guys' comments later.

[spiral]

Very cool post. Interesting to see the thread of someone's session. I was suprised how often you play QTo... may have to add that to my repitoir.

[Allan]

Clarkemeister plays more hands than anyone here...that is a fact. I'm not sure how often he plays this kind of hand, but in this game condition it is more than acceptable. Look how often he is winning with a flop or turn bet and no hand. Choose your spots wisely if adding this hand into your mix.


Allan

[RockLobster]

I loved this post.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

which is unfortunate because I prefer having the tight/aggressive players on my left


[/ QUOTE ]
I thought it was best to have passive players on your left (since they're predictable), and the aggressive players on your right (so you can act after they're raise, giving you more info to make your decision).

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

Hand #4: In the BB with 9c2c vs 4 limpers. Flop is Ac 5c 3d. I bet, Loose but straightforward old man calls, another call. turn is Th, I bet, old man calls, other folds. River 5h, Old man starts to shake his head in disgust, I bet, he folds.


[/ QUOTE ]
Is there a better reason to play poker? I love this hand!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />

Hand #12: Folded to me in MP with 22 and I think of Andy Fox and fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this reference.

Looks like a successful session for you, nice job!

[Clarkmeister]

I limped with the QTo simply as a balancing play. I'll raise here sometimes too. Besides, I find that the "delayed steal" brings me a special joy.

K9s I think is fine in a game like this. I'd raise sometimes, but I figured I'd get another 2 limpers behind me. There wasn't a ton of preflop raising going on other than myself.

"I wouldn't say [censored]"

I'm a chatterbox. Part image, part natural personality. This guy and myself were shotting barbs at each other the whole time, I don't think saying I thought he was bluffing really hurts me. He did give me back my 2 bluff bets later on anyways.


Re: The AK hand in the SB.

I want fishy along for the ride. His presense really allows me to leverage my position with "right of first checkraise" and have it look believable. Plus, as it turns out, do I really want him folding K9 against my AK?


"wish my 8/16 was as soft/weak as you describe yours to be"

Why do you think my game developed into the overaggressive thing that it is? If they keep folding, I'm going to keep betting and raising.

[Clarkmeister]

"Hand 10: Was the game getting tightish? Obviously raising 77 UTG isn't the default play, I'm curious about your reasons here. Given that you did, I like the post flop play."

Actually, raising with 77 UTG is very close to my default play. Especially when (sorry rharless....) the BB is extraordinarily tight.

Hand 11: "I don't like the flop call though. I wouldn't call for the gutshot, backdoor flush and overcard. It's hard to imagine your overcard has much value. What was your plan if you hit a K or a 9?"

If it was non-heart ten, I'd check-call. A heart ten, I checkraise. A non-ace heart, I'd bet. A king, I'd consider checkraising or check-folding depending on his reaction to the card. A 9 and I'd likely checkraise.

[Clarkmeister]

"Hand 20: "I open raise with KQo." Good. I think I raise KQ more than most people. Is this hand a typo though?"

Yeah, its a typo. I turned the nut straight after flopping open ended. UTG I limp with KQ maybe 20%. I open raise 100% anywhere else. I'll also raise up to 3 non-rock limpers. I am dominating far far more often than I am dominated.

"Hand 23: I'd usually 3 bet AK here. Did you smooth call planning on check raising any flop? I think that'd be a pretty good plan, since decent player doesn't have to have much of a hand, especially if he was decent enough to notice that fishy was fishy."

See my response to Vehn. I think that calling here is clearly the correct play. Its also very confusing given my image and since I basically plan on checkraising any board, it gives me a ton of postflop leverage. I really want to keep fishy along for the ride here. Maybe I should have posted this hand separately, I think its a good preflop debate.

[Clarkmeister]

" was suprised how often you play QTo"

I played QTo once, in the CO. I also open raised QTs in EP.

The QTo in LP is a fine hand. With position you will steal alot of pots, and shorthanded you aren't really worried about domination.

The other hand is an example of what happens when the table gets too tight. I had been raising a lot preflop (due to good hands, but they don't know that) and no one was 3-betting me. Now I can open it up a bit and see just how far they will let me push. In this case, I got a guy who had previously been willing to play back at me to fold a better hand because "it wasn't worth it" to go to war with me. I love it when that happens.

[Clarkmeister]

"I thought it was best to have passive players on your left (since they're predictable), and the aggressive players on your right (so you can act after they're raise, giving you more info to make your decision)."

I find that the tight aggressives, particularly vegas locals or 2+2ers play far far fewer hands than me. I'd rather have the passive (poor) playing players on my right, giving me "first right of isolation". The tight players very rarely have enough ammo to 3-bet, and I can frequently start to take over a table.


"I don't understand this (Andy Fox) reference."

Andy frequently posts in Mid-Stakes that he never plays a hand with a 2 in it. We have a running gag about it. I think I folded just so I could tell him I folded 22.

"Looks like a successful session for you, nice job!"

I think this is an important point. I lost two huge pots, one to a runner runner 1 card straight when I had top set, and another to a 3 outer with K9 when I had AK. But I still ran good for the session . Look at how many quality starting hands I had for about 3 hours of game. KK 2x, QQ 2x, AK, AQ, AJs 2x.......lots and lots of good hands, and I was rarely getting cracked. Running good can come in different forms than we look for. I didn't "play so well as to overcome my 2 bad beats". I "ran so well that even two beats couldn't hurt my session".

See the difference?

[JTG51]

Re: The AK hand in the SB.

I want fishy along for the ride. His presense really allows me to leverage my position with "right of first checkraise" and have it look believable. Plus, as it turns out, do I really want him folding K9 against my AK?

As I said in my response, calling so you can check raise any flop is just fine. If that's your reason, I've got no problem with the play. I actually posted a hand I played where the preflop action was exactly the same on the mid stakes forum a few weeks ago. I ended up calling from the SB with my AK for the same reason.

I don't think keeping fishy in is a viable reason for not 3 betting though. I rarely see a fish limp then fold for any amount of bets before the flop.

[Clarkmeister]

"I don't think keeping fishy in is a viable reason for not 3 betting though. I rarely see a fish limp preflop then fold for any amount of bets after the flop."

I think he may well have folded. On the flop when facing 2 bets with his top pair, he literally thought for about 45 seconds before finally (and thankfully) very reluctantly putting his chips in.

[JTG51]

Sorry Clarkmeister, that's a typo. It should read "I rarely see a fish limp preflop then fold for any amount of bets before the flop."

[Vehn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I limped with the QTo simply as a balancing play. I'll raise here sometimes too. Besides, I find that the "delayed steal" brings me a special joy.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as the QT and K9s preflop plays a better understanding of not only the table in general but the players to your left and right is really necessary to form a good opinion on.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I'm a chatterbox. Part image, part natural personality. This guy and myself were shotting barbs at each other the whole time, I don't think saying I thought he was bluffing really hurts me. He did give me back my 2 bluff bets later on anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm usually pretty quiet anyways but when I get caught putting a move on someone (much different than caught bluffing btw) I just wordlessly turn my cards up, wait for the dealer and player to figure it out, and put on a big grin and don't say a word.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Re: The AK hand in the SB.

I want fishy along for the ride. His presense really allows me to leverage my position with "right of first checkraise" and have it look believable. Plus, as it turns out, do I really want him folding K9 against my AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't want fishy there at all. Do you want him there with QJ? 65s? If you want to let him in, why 3-bet a cutoff open raise when you have AQ in the small blind? Why 3-bet here if you had QQ? I agree with your "making your checkraise look legit" line of thought but IMO especially at apparently such a weak tight table just get the money with the best hand now, if fishy drops your chances of winning the pot has gone up anyways. I tend to treat raises from LP decent players when a fishy has open limped in EP/MP as basically a steal raise and react accordingly with good hands in my blind. Then again the most money I've ever lost on a poker hand was when a fishy open limped in MP, button raised with 88, and I 3-bet from the SB with AQ.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Why do you think my game developed into the overaggressive thing that it is? If they keep folding, I'm going to keep betting and raising.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems like every bad session I've had at my 8/16 is when people stop folding. I had a craptacular 2-rack-drop on Tuesday when the table dissolved into showdown hold'em. But to be honest I also played the worst poker that I have in a long long time and I'm really not pleased about it. Not tilty, just poor poor decisions. Ugh.

Out of curiousity what your hours/results for this session if you don't mind? Seems like an awful good amount of good starters. Maybe I'll do something like this myself after I play tonight or tomorrow.

[Ed Miller]

I thought it was best to have passive players on your left (since they're predictable), and the aggressive players on your right (so you can act after they're raise, giving you more info to make your decision).

IMO, this is damage control thinking. You are the wolf, and you want the sheep where they are easy pickins. Sheep belong on your right so that when they open limp in the cutoff, you can raise with weaker hands and force them to make a hand or fold. Dangerous players just don't play enough hands to hurt you enough to make up for all the extra money you'll make isolating the sheep who plays every hand. Another strength of having the sheep on your right is that your blind doesn't get raised nearly as often. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[RockLobster]

IMO, this is damage control thinking. You are the wolf, and you want the sheep where they are easy pickins. Sheep belong on your right so that when they open limp in the cutoff, you can raise with weaker hands and force them to make a hand or fold. Dangerous players just don't play enough hands to hurt you enough to make up for all the extra money you'll make isolating the sheep who plays every hand. Another strength of having the sheep on your right is that your blind doesn't get raised nearly as often.

Good point(s) (Clarky's post also). It seems that "book knowledge" points the other way (strength on right, passive on left). If you plan to dominate (i.e. "be the wolf") then this makes sense to me. And if you don't plan to dominate at poker, you should consider &lt;fill in the blank with your own creative suggestion&gt;.

With all this knowledge, someone is going to be in trouble the next time I actually sit down and play (instead of just reading about poker)! /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

[Tyler Durden]

How many big bets did you win?

[bad beetz]

In hand 23, if I took over for the fishy on the river when he makes two pair and you have top-top, I'm not sure if i would raise you. Would you raise you?

let me ask it another way. What, with a board of KQJ98 does K9 beat that you smooth call a tight players raise with preflop.

(actually, I think if I ever saw you smooth call preflop I'd just muck right there)

[Clarkmeister]

"How many big bets did you win?"

I bought in for $500, and cashed out for $764 so 16.5BB profit over a 3 hour session.

[Dr.Kimble]

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[Homer]

The other day on Paradise, I was on the button and was dealt J9o (or something like that). The SB was tight and the BB was JTG (he's a fish who posts here in case you didn't know /forums/images/icons/smile.gif). Now I realize I probably could have raised and stolen the blinds, but I decided to screw around and limped. The SB folded and JTG checked. After the flop I bet and he folded, at which point he said, "When you limped from the button preflop, I almost folded right there". I have no point, I just thought it was funny to screw with his head. /forums/images/icons/tongue.gif

-- Homer

[Bob T.]

Hand #17: I open raise AQo UTG. People are visibly irritated with me.

I have a question, once they are irritated, do you continue to play fast, or do you usually tighten up, and try and get extra action out of your premium hands?

This afternoon, I played in a shorthanded weak tight 3-6 game on ultimate bet. I was pushing hard, and my opponents were folding a lot. I was sure that if we were at a live game, that I would have been able to tell how annoyed they were. After about a half an hour, one of the players to my left began three betting my raises fairly frequently, and moderately liberally. But if he wasn't involved, the rest of the table was still playing weakly on the flop, and folding on the turn to continued betting. By this time, I think the game had got to 7 handed. I got a little more selective, but it still seemed that the right thing to do was to continue to play very, very aggressively.

How far do you continue to push in these situations, and what adjustments do you consider?

Thanks for your responses,

[Ed Miller]

When people get irritated with me (usually for "raising too much"), I keep doing what I'm doing... I figure I must be doing something right.

If they think I'm speeding all the time, though, and are therefore committed to calling me down at all costs... well, it ain't gonna be easy to buy a pot under those circumstances.

[Tyler Durden]

Good to know. I plan on playing in this game when I go to Vegas for Memorial Day weekend (late May).

[Bob T.]

I was at the final table in a tournament, and we were down to four handed. From when we were playing two tables, I don't think any pot was ever played for 1 bet preflop.

I was in the Big blind, UTG folded, and the button limped, the SB and I looked at each other, and he said ' I'm glad I'm the small blind and I can fold now '. I don't remember what the my hand was, but I decided that if I couldn't beat AA, I was going to fold on the flop, and I did.

[rharless]

I'm glad you posted this script. I think it's just phenomenol that you remember so much detail from four days ago without taking a single note at the table. And though it probably doesn't need to be stated, I wanted to emphasize that Clarky did not in any way exaggerate or innaccurately describe any player's descriptions or reactions.

Hand #3: ... I 3 bet with red QQ... EP raises all in, SAK folds, I call. I flip my cards over, two small non clubs come and my hand is good. EP doesn't show.

Minor comment, in two sessions now, I've seen him always flip his hand over when the other is all in and entice the all-in into also showing his cards: "come on, let's do it like the World Series!" -- I must say it's more fun. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

Hand #8: 3 limpers to me in my BB with 82o. Flop is Q52 rainbow. Checked to aggressive local who bets last to act. I checkraise, everyone folds.

I remember making mental note, "check raise this player when he makes button bet" but unfortunately didn't get that chance.

Hand #13: I limp UTG with 33. Solid Asian Kid from hand #3 who had moved to my immediate left, and rharless on my right both look at me and start making wisecracks about me limping.

This was hilarious. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif It turned out to be his solitary EP limp in 3.5 hours.

Hand #17: I open raise AQo UTG. People are visibly irritated with me.

After Clarkmeister racked up his chips, people started asking me about him. He nearly sold a maniac image. "Does he always play like that? Does he win? Does he always have a hand when he raises?" I answered yes, yes, and "he always has a raisable hand."

Hand #19: rharless open raises on the button. I am in the SB with QJo. Normally I 3 bet, but I decide to be a sociable fellow and fold. She later says she had 9Ts.

Actually 98s, but who's counting /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Hand #24: I open raise UTG with AJs. Fishy and another come along, rharless folds AQo in BB (yippee).

While I am definitely extra-tight, I just wanted to add my thinking to this hand -- Clarky said he "always" calls AQo in the BB. I actually usually do as well, in fact I have recently had much success three-betting it from the BB. In this situation, I do not want to take AQo up against a player who is better than me, can easily read what I have by how I play, and will make it very expensive for me if I do catch an A even though as it turns out I had him dominated. I know he raises AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, and pairs above 77 in EP. I don't know if he raises AT (Cali monster). I did have a brief fleeting thought of three-betting, thinking it would make a great "how I beat Clarky" thread /forums/images/icons/grin.gif however it could have also been a disastrous "how Clarky kicked my sorry AQ ass" thread. /forums/images/icons/smirk.gif

One lesson I learned from Clarkmeister in this session which I wanted to mention (maybe this is meat for a new thread). He told me I should often consider calling headsup with A-high because I will be amazed at how many shots people have been taking at me. I remembered when I started playing and would sometimes fold an overpair to signs of aggression on a scary board, only to learn that all along I had been making a mistake. I guess I have to start thinking of A-high or any hand that I raised preflop in the same way. As remarkable as it sounds, it never occurred to me to call on the river with A-high.

rh

[Clarkmeister]

Uh, Could you elaborate a little? /forums/images/icons/confused.gif

[Clarkmeister]

"How far do you continue to push in these situations, and what adjustments do you consider?"

As long as they keep folding too much, I keep pushing. However, it does require that I occassionally limp with a hand like AQo to provide cover for me when I do choose to limp. This really screws them up. I can't have them thinking that because I limped this time, it means they can take shots at me. In fact, I nearly limped with the UTG AQo where I blew off those chips against the QT. The whole goal is to make them afraid to screw with me because they know its going to be very expensive. Note that this is not as effective in bigger games where they know what you are doing and they don't mind playing that style. Better opponents means you need a more well rounded gameplan.

If the game as a whole loosens up, I start to tone down the aggression a bit. And this frequently happens as a byproduct of my play and image. When your number of opponents starts to rise from 2 to 4, then its time to really tighten up your postflop standards and start exploiting their newfound tendancy to call. You'll be amazed at how many free cards you can take.

I think the key is to keep targeting their mistakes. And as they adjust to you, be prepared to make the appropriate counter-adjustments. Of course, it helps to get dealt amazing starting hands like I did in this session. Sometimes I'm stuck with the ultra tight image due to no good situations arising. But I've learned to be comfortable with that as well.

[Clarkmeister]

Re: Hand 23

He was most unhappy having to call me on the river. His eyes lit up when I announced "one pair" and flipped up my hand.

[Clarkmeister]

I actually think the most "Clarkmeisterish" hand you saw me play was my 88 hand at the Stardust the very first hand that I was dealt.

(for those who are wondering....rharless met with myself and my girlfriend a few days prior and the 3 of us played some 3-6 together.)

Was great to meet you and play with you. Jo says "hi".

[Bob T.]

Thanks, Clarkmeister,

As majorkong pointed out, if they are irritated, that means that they are out of there comfort zone, and I should probably continue doing what I am doing. I like the idea that the main adjustment that you make is how you play postflop, and not an adjustment preflop. If I felt that the table thought that I was pushing too hard, I usually made an adjustment preflop, and tightened up in response to the tension, prior to evidence that my opponents had made play adjustments.

I can see where continuing to put pressure on your opponents, until they have demonstrated an adjustment, has benefits, because when you make the counter adjustment, you have already moved many of your opponents into the old game mode, and now you are playing a different game than the one they have changed to.

The other benefit is that many players have one style, or mode that they play in, and regardless of how much evidence you give them, that the game will not be conducted in that style, they are going to continue to play that way. If you are effectively countering that style, then you should just continue, until you have at least some evidence that they have changed.

[RockLobster]

Running good can come in different forms than we look for. I didn't "play so well as to overcome my 2 bad beats". I "ran so well that even two beats couldn't hurt my session".

See the difference?

My first reaction was "yes, I see". But I didn't. I rolled this around for a while. I came up with this:

Session results (pos or neg) may be due to:
poor / great holdings
poor / great luck
poor / great play
poor / great opponents

...or more likely, a combination of the above. In your posted session, you had a great run of starting hands that held out for you. You also played well, and dominated your opponents into playing too passively. This covers 3 of the above items (excluding luck), and luck is the one that your opponents may have blamed for their losses!

How you look at things is pretty important. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

[SoBeDude]

Look how often he is winning with a flop or turn bet and no hand.

But look at his table image. Through a good run of cards and very aggressive play, he has the image of a monster. He's intimidated the entire table so every time he's in a hand, everyone sees him holding the nuts. They're folding because they have seen so many big cards in his hand it looks like they're glued there.

I'd wager he'd have made good money playing 72o as well as QT that night.

heck of a night. I'm sure you had fun!

-Scott

P.S. teach me to be so aggressive and not go broke!