3/6 live hand from MGM

[chiachu]

Full table, ive sat down for about 4 orbits.

BB is a loose/passive calling station. Ive seen him make many terrible calls, but this is the first time ive seen him get aggressive preflop.

Hero is in MP and delt A/images/graemlins/club.gifQ/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Preflop: One limper from EP, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, EP folds, Hero calls

Flop: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifA/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB bets, Hero calls

Turn: T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif
BB bets, Hero calls

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif
BB bets, Hero calls

[DCWildcat]

Why not raise the flop?

Shouldn't this be in small stakes?

[topspin]

I'm raising the turn. From your description, he's likely to call down if he's got a hand, and he may not lead the river. Raising the flop is also an option, but given your read, I don't think villain 3-bets with a worse hand so we collect more bets by waiting for the turn. Only 1 reasonable hand (AK) beats you, so you're ahead the vast majority of the time.

You have to find a raise here somewhere though. Arguments can be made for both the flop and the river.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Shouldn't this be in small stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you've every played 3/6 live you would know the answer to this question /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Shillx]

Hands like this suck, and in general I wait until the river to raise. When the 3rd /images/graemlins/diamond.gif slides you are pretty much forced to raise there for value in case he has something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif.

Brad

[chiachu]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising the turn. From your description, he's likely to call down if he's got a hand, and he may not lead the river. Raising the flop is also an option, but given your read, I don't think villain 3-bets with a worse hand so we collect more bets by waiting for the turn. Only 1 reasonable hand (AK) beats you, so you're ahead the vast majority of the time.

You have to find a raise here somewhere though. Arguments can be made for both the flop and the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


Yea the turn was where i considered raising. My thought (at the time) was that if he has KK,QQ,JJ i get 1 extra bet from him by raising (assuming he calls down). If he has AK, i lose 2 extra bets (assuming he 3-bets the turn). I guess i just wasnt ready to lay down AQ to a 3-bet on the turn.

[topspin]

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this suck, and in general I wait until the river to raise. When the 3rd /images/graemlins/diamond.gif slides you are pretty much forced to raise there for value in case he has something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif.

[/ QUOTE ]

Against someone that can find a fold, a river raise is better than a turn raise. Against the villain hero describes, I'm raising pretty much any turn.

[chiachu]

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this suck, and in general I wait until the river to raise. When the 3rd /images/graemlins/diamond.gif slides you are pretty much forced to raise there for value in case he has something like K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif K /images/graemlins/club.gif.
Brad

[/ QUOTE ]

When i read this, i was wondering why wait til the river. Then i thought maybe raising the river will cause BB to be more afraid of a boat, so you're not likely to be 3-bet on the river? Im just confused /images/graemlins/confused.gif Could you explain the river raise?

[Greg J]

Hey Brad,

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this suck, and in general I wait until the river to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would you elaborate on this thought please? Thanks.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Brad,

[ QUOTE ]
Hands like this suck, and in general I wait until the river to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
Would you elaborate on this thought please? Thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

They suck because you can't get aggressive with this hand. It would be different if the guy could have AJ or AT or something, but if the dude has Ax here it is AK and AK only. So if you get a ton of action on your hand, you are going to lose everytime. Therefore you just have to call all the way and hope that he is pushing KK or QQ or whatever.

The river raise is just a value play. He will have AK less often then he will an underpair so you raise and hope he thinks you are FOS.

Is it illigal for me to run good or something? This is total BS. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[chiachu]

shillx:
i am assuming you would fold to a 3-bet on the turn (for this particular hand) or river (your normal line)?

edit:
I ask this because if you're planning to call the 3-bet, you risking 2bb's to win 1 extra bb by raising the river. Unless you expect him to occassionally 3-bet with KK/QQ.

[Greg J]

[ QUOTE ]

Is it illigal for me to run good or something? This is total BS. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Eh? Maybe you took something I said the wrong way.

[Shillx]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Is it illigal for me to run good or something? This is total BS. /images/graemlins/mad.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
Eh? Maybe you took something I said the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No not at all. Just getting frustrated in these damn SNGs and I'm getting low on beer. Whew just won one. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Greg J]

Oh okay, nm I feel kinda silly.

What kinda SngS you play? I like the 10+1s no limit at Party. HoH has already payed for itself many times over.

[Shillx]

30+3s NL

Maybe the 50+5s or 100+9s if I can start winning again. My ROI in the 33's is something like -20% over my last 100.

[KingOtter]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh okay, nm I feel kinda silly.

What kinda SngS you play? I like the 10+1s no limit at Party. HoH has already payed for itself many times over.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh... right after I read HoH I won the next 3 SnGs I played... then went into a tailspin that lasted all of May. It is sitting next to me on the desk again. I'm about to try again.

KO

[topspin]

How long does a typical 10+1 SNG last? I've been thinking about trying them out, but I hate getting tied to my computer for long periods at a time.

[ArturiusX]

30 min maybe?

I like how you played it, I might raise the turn if I know the guy can't lay down KK/QQ

[TomBrooks]

FLOP: Call good because the pot is small and you only have one opponent.

TURN: Raise