Am I a donk for not knowing how to play it?

[USCSigma1097]

PP 20+2

UTG 180
BUTTON 4400
SB 800
HERO 2620

BB is t300

UTG folds
Button calls
SB folds
Dealt to hero Q 3

Flop comes A Q 3

Hero checks Button bets 300 Hero Calls
Flop 6
Hero checks button bets 600, hero raises 1200, button raises all in...

What in the world should I do here??? If I call I have a massive chip lead if I win... if I lose I bust out of a tourney when a player has half a blind left...

As far as reads, UTG and SB are donks. Button has been using his stack to push table around and has not done anything that I would consider "out of line"... If anything I consider him the best player at the table.

How do you guys play this?

[rydazzle]

There is a similar post about bottom two pair on the forum now.

You need to check-raise the flop, bottom 2 pair is strong enough to check raise but with a call loses value fast. You are ahead and there's a nice pot, get your money in.

I posted this to the other guy - you are in a "dark tunnel" with the call and now I feel you are pot committed. If he hit Ax so be it, you dont have enough time to worry about that in SNGs

[The Don]

I call it... You are ahead of Ax (or maybe a total bluff taking advantage of the bubble) 90% of the time here. Raise to 900 on the flop though.

[gildwulf]

You need to put all your money in on a combination of the flop and the turn...how you do this is pretty subjective.

[ilya]

With the stacks as they are, I probably check-fold the flop. I am scared of the button limp: he likely realizes that you and the SB will fold most hands if he pushes with UTG this short, making it more likely than usual that he's slowplaying a big hand.

[USCSigma1097]

Ilya,

You can check fold two pair on the flop??? I don't know, but this can't be right.

Sigma

[ilya]

[ QUOTE ]
Ilya,

You can check fold two pair on the flop??? I don't know, but this can't be right.

Sigma

[/ QUOTE ]

Mebbe it's too weak. However, UTG is all-in next hand and SB is also a lot shorter than Hero.
It also feels strange to fold AKs to a Villain preflop push in this spot, yet it's clearly correct.

[USCSigma1097]

I know it's correct to fold AKs, but fold two pair on the flop. I was thinking that I might should fire off a pot sized bet or maybe a 1.5 pot sized bet on flop and go from there...

thoughts?

Sigma

[threeonefour]

if you are afraid of being bubbled and you should have check raised allin or bet allin.

big stacks love to push allin because they know that middle stacks will commit chips trying to show their strength but will still fold to the allin raise because they don't want to go out 4th when there is a guy with a .5BB stack

if i played that hand i would have probably bet the pot or when allin on the flop. If i bet the pot and he called, I would go allin as long as another A didn't come off on the turn

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
It also feels strange to fold AKs to a Villain preflop push in this spot, yet it's clearly correct.


[/ QUOTE ]
This situation would be more like folding AA pre flop than folding AK.

[microbet]

My thought is to get your money in the pot. Sooner would have been better, but get it in. It would be different if winning didn't give you the big chip lead.

[USCSigma1097]

RESULTS

Villain has AQ for top two pair...River is a brick and I bust out with players having 180 and 800 stacks. I felt like such a moeron.

Sigma

[Nottom]

Bet the flop. Push if you get raised, if he has you beat then I guess he got you.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It also feels strange to fold AKs to a Villain preflop push in this spot, yet it's clearly correct.


[/ QUOTE ]
This situation would be more like folding AA pre flop than folding AK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Prolly more like JJ or QQ

[lastchance]

I think you should lose your stack 100% of the time he has AQ. You double up when he hits top pair on the flop..

I like check-raising the flop here, and I think you lose your chips every single time.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you should lose your stack 100% of the time he has AQ. You double up when he hits top pair on the flop..

I like check-raising the flop here, and I think you lose your chips every single time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to reiterate, I hate checking the flop. I think its awful.

[rydazzle]

ouch, destiny had you on this one.

[USCSigma1097]

Ok, here's my next question...

In the same situation you are involved with the chip leader and there are two VERY short stacks at your table. How good must your hand be in my situation, where I saw a flop for free, to continue to play knowing that I almost assuredly can fold my way ITM...

Sigma

[Bigwig]

[ QUOTE ]


Mebbe it's too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

No 'mebbe.' It is.

To the OP--I'm reminded of a comment Strassa made. "When I'm confused, I shove all my chips in the middle."

Maybe it wasn't Strassa. Maybe it was some donk. But I agree with the statement.

Also, is it Strassa, or Strasser? Hell, my memory is shot from drinking all damn weekend.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, here's my next question...

In the same situation you are involved with the chip leader and there are two VERY short stacks at your table. How good must your hand be in my situation, where I saw a flop for free, to continue to play knowing that I almost assuredly can fold my way ITM...

Sigma

[/ QUOTE ]

I think your hand here is pretty close to the cut-off for losing all my chips.

[lastchance]

I think Button bets here 70+% of the time, or more, which why I check.

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Prolly more like JJ or QQ



[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, i guess that probably is a better example. The point is there is a big difference between folding a hand that is only about 65% to win against any two cards, and a made hand after the flop that has many hands nearly drawing dead. Although in regards to this being like have QQ or JJ pre flop, I would probably fold JJ and I am most likely not folding the OP's hand.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Button bets here 70+% of the time, or more, which why I check.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe, but hes also going to raise you a lot (at which point you can push) and I don't like giving free cards with vulnerable holdings.

[CaptSensible]

I call here. If ya lose ya lose. You have what appears to be the best hand. I put BB on a pair of Aces.

[lastchance]

You can easily check-push this hand with t900 in the pot and only t2000 behind.

I just think that gets t300-t600 more chips than betting out when opponent has nothing.

Yeah, an ace or king would suck, but any decent Button fires out at you, so you can easily pick up a lot of extra chips here just by checking and moving all-in to the bet.

[Scuba Chuck]

USC guy, this is a very easy hand to play.

1) Check-raise allin on the flop, or
2) Check-fold because it guarantees you a likely shot at first place later.

Which do I like better? Well, it depends on my read of villain.

[Ixnert]

I'm not sure exactly where the cutoff is, but flopped two pair is over it.

[Nicholasp27]

i push on the flop...yes u can fold ur way to itm 90% of the time, but pushing this 2pair has to be +ev, which is more important to long-term results

if he has aq, or if he turns/rivers a card to beat u, in this tourney then so be it...but u'll gain more in long run with push here than with fold