Hi, It's Me Again

[Spladle Master]

In retrospect, the third street completion might be a little frisky, given the number of overcards left to act behind me. Fold might be better. But I'm not sure about this, considering that my cards are entirely live and I can easily fold if I'm re-raised. Thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Also, 4th-7th. Seat 4 is the same dumbass from my J33 hand. Basically, every street was a bet for value. Is this standard against someone who will on occasion pay off when he can't beat what you have showing? Given his board, I thought he was unlikely to have me beaten.

[Bremen]

you might want to try posting this in the thread to which you're talking about :0)

[Spladle Master]

7 Card Stud High ($2/$4), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (hand converter (http://www.geocities.com/greenage22/7StudConverter.hta.txt))

3rd Street - (0.88 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif___folds
Seat 2: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif___calls
Seat 3: xx xx J/images/graemlins/club.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif___brings-in___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif___completes
Seat 7: xx xx Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif___folds

4th Street - (3.88 SB)

Seat 2: xx xx J/images/graemlins/spade.gif 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif___bets

5th Street - (2.94 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif___bets

6th Street - (4.94 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

River - (6.94 BB)

Seat 4: xx xx 2/images/graemlins/club.gif 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif xx___calls
Hero: 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif 7/images/graemlins/club.gif J/images/graemlins/heart.gif 5/images/graemlins/club.gif K/images/graemlins/spade.gif T/images/graemlins/spade.gif___bets

Total pot: (8.94 BB)

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
you might want to try posting this in the thread to which you're talking about :0)

[/ QUOTE ]

What, and be like everybody else? No way man, that's not me. I'm an original. I'm unique.

My mommy says I'm special. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Andy B]

I was just reading about hands like this in HOH2. Action Dan calls these "dark tunnel bluffs."

I limp on third. If the game is more aggressive than most of the $2/4 games I've ever sat in, folding is probably better, especially with the small ante.

I think that betting fourth and fifth is just fine. No one folds sixth, so I think I'd probably just check unless you really think there's a decent chance that this guy will fold for one more bet on the river. You might as well try to bluff the river.

The other guy has been calling you with something. A pair Eights isn't too hard to outrun.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
I was just reading about hands like this in HOH2. Action Dan calls these "dark tunnel bluffs."

I limp on third. If the game is more aggressive than most of the $2/4 games I've ever sat in, folding is probably better, especially with the small ante.

I think that betting fourth and fifth is just fine. No one folds sixth, so I think I'd probably just check unless you really think there's a decent chance that this guy will fold for one more bet on the river. You might as well try to bluff the river.

The other guy has been calling you with something. A pair Eights isn't too hard to outrun.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really should've been more specific. I'm mostly interested in third street here. Betting 4th-7th was easy. Initial hole cards for this guy were Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and he rivered the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. Go back and look at the hand with that information and tell me 4th-7th aren't easy bets. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I needed to post this hand 'cause I was sitting with this guy the whole time and I still lost a [censored]-ton of money.

[Andy B]

Reminds me of someone I used to play with a lot at CP. Saw him last night for the first time in ages. I still check sixth and probably seventh.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Reminds me of someone I used to play with a lot at CP. Saw him last night for the first time in ages. I still check sixth and probably seventh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't he have to have me beat pretty often to make those checks correct?

[Roland]

I would fold on 3rd. The only card that helps our hand on 4th is a seven or eight - that’s just not enough imo. (If you had a live straight-flush kicker, that would be much different, for instance).
If the game is really really passive limping might be better.
Raising is your worst option - you just won’t be able to get it heads-up with seat 4 often enough to make raising +EV.

Betting 4th and 5th is obviously fine.



[ QUOTE ]
No one folds sixth, so I think I'd probably just check unless you really think there's a decent chance that this guy will fold for one more bet on the river. You might as well try to bluff the river.

The other guy has been calling you with something. A pair Eights isn't too hard to outrun.

[/ QUOTE ]


That’s interesting Andy.
I think it’s a bet. Sure, folding equity should be close to zero, but it’s just too likely that 8s are still ahead, given the history of this guy.
The time to check is against a solid player who could be slow playing a big buried pair and might raise you on 6th or will at least have the best hand a significant amount of the time. Against this guy though, I’m not giving any free cards.

The river bet was meant to be a value bet and not a bluff, right? (I wouldn’t try to bluff here).
Value betting a pair of 8s is fun, of course, but I think checking is much better. First, you would hate to be raised. Second, he might check behind with the best hand sometimes. Third, he will often try and bluff you (I think there’s a good chance he would have tried in this hand, for instance).

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold on 3rd. The only card that helps our hand on 4th is a seven or eight - that’s just not enough imo. (If you had a live straight-flush kicker, that would be much different, for instance).
If the game is really really passive limping might be better.
Raising is your worst option - you just won’t be able to get it heads-up with seat 4 often enough to make raising +EV.

Betting 4th and 5th is obviously fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

I see your point about third street. Just out of curiosity, if the seven had given me a live two-flush, do you think I would have been better off raising or calling as the first one in?

[ QUOTE ]
The river bet was meant to be a value bet and not a bluff, right? (I wouldn’t try to bluff here).

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course. Look what he called me with. This is not a guy I ever tried to push off a hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Value betting a pair of 8s is fun, of course, but I think checking is much better. First, you would hate to be raised. Second, he might check behind with the best hand sometimes. Third, he will often try and bluff you (I think there’s a good chance he would have tried in this hand, for instance).

[/ QUOTE ]

This was very player-specific. I never saw him bluff, really. He was very passive and predictable. I don't think he would have tried to bluff the river, but I do agree that he would have checked behind on the river with hands that beat me, given my board (like nines-up, say).

The thing is, he could just as easily have played pocket aces this way. But I wasn't going to give him credit for that until he showed some strength. If he raised the river here he'd be doing it with a minimum of trips. Aces up would not be good enough. So in that case it's an easy fold.