Should I give up poker or keep trying?

[Wevie]

I'd like some honest feedback. I know y'all would love me to keep refilling my bankroll and giving it to you.

I tried ring games online a few months ago and got my ass handed to me. I planned on giving up online poker until I found STT's. Middle May I started playing them and decided the first of June to spend some time trying to make some money. I set a short term goal of making $50 per day and a long term goal of $100 a day. Was hoping to see my long term goal in 6-8 months. This is part time 3-4 hours per day.

I started with a too small bank roll of $150. By the end of June I was up to $550. I felt like I learned some important lessons playing. I planned on going to four 10+1's on Party as soon as I had $600.

First of July I started playing two tables. First two days were going good. I wasn't making much, but I was learning to handle multiple tables. Then things went bad.

I dropped to a $250 bank roll playing two tables. So I dropped back to one table. After 6 days of a downward roller coaster ride, I was down to $25. I'm still holding a 43% ITM rate. I don't know my ROI, but I'm broke, so that must meen its negative. Last night I took that to the .25/.50 6 max NL tables and lost what was left in about 6 hours.

So, now I wonder if I'm just not cut out for this game. The math is there, things seem logical, I'm just not winning. I wonder if I should give up or refill my bank roll. Mind you, it will be a couple months before the wife allows it.

What would you do? How soon do beginners give up? Are my goals too lofty? Any other advice?

Thanks for reading.

[skipperbob]

How old r u?...How much total poker experience?

[citanul]

do you enjoy it?
do you have money to blow?

citanul

[raptor517]

first guess, yer.. 17?? sounds like me when i was 17. cept if i had 500 bucks i was playing 109s. bwahhhahahaha. holla

[Wevie]

I'm 33 years old, have a good career and can afford to blow a few hundred a month if need be. I am normally spending a couple k a month drag racing, but the race car is down for the rest of the season so I started playing poker online.

I enjoy the hell out of playing, but a 50 buy-in downswing in 9 days really sucks.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 33 years old, have a good career and can afford to blow a few hundred a month if need be. I am normally spending a couple k a month drag racing, but the race car is down for the rest of the season so I started playing poker online.

I enjoy the hell out of playing, but a 50 buy-in downswing in 9 days really sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

ive had 50 buyin downswing in 2 days. aint that hard really. holla

[The Don]

Don't give up, I went through 4 $100 stakes before I became a winning player. I would nut peddle NL25 or (even better) PLO25 to build your roll though. I have had severe problems at the $11s in my life also (lifetime 10% ROI over ~1000 11s and 24% over ~800 22s). Nut peddling low limit cash games has less variance and is more profitable IMO.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
The math is there, things seem logical, I'm just not winning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think the math is there: you don't really say how much you played, you admit you don't know your ROI only your ITM (it better be the other way around), etc. If I understand correctly you're playing SNGs less than 2 months, basically 1 or 2 tabling. So it doesn't seem like you've played a lot up until today. There's a good chance you are (still?) not a winning player, but only more time and expirience will tell.

And also, it's gambling, i.e, you can't really say "my goal is to make $100 a day". Your goal should be to play your best game, and/or to play X games or Y hours a day. If your ROI is there to make it, on the long run you'll make $W a day, _on avarage_. But there will be days in which you'll make -$W. I'm saying this because many players sometimes confuse between what they "should" be making on avarage, and what the numbers on the end of each day show, and it could be extremely frustrating. It's always a rollercoaster, even when you're a strong and expirienced player.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
first guess, yer.. 17?? sounds like me when i was 17. cept if i had 500 bucks i was playing 109s. bwahhhahahaha. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Mind you, it will be a couple months before the wife allows it.

[/ QUOTE ]

care to make a wager raptor????

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
care to make a wager raptor????

[/ QUOTE ]

raptor hasn't gotten out of 9th grade yet, so he hasn't had to do reading comprehension yet.

another:

raptor lives in texas, where it's common to be married by 14, but only if it's to a family member.

citanul

[flytrap]

You should probably read about the game, a lot. Both the forums here, and books from the bookstore. Also, I think limit is easier for a new player than no-limit. One great thing to do is post sample hands, so the readers of this forum can give you advice. Some of the advice will be bad, but sometimes bad advice at least gives you a different way to look at a hand, maybe a way you hadn't thought of. Most of the advice, however, will at least be close to correct.

Don't get trapped with the mindset that if you win $550 in a week you're playing well, and the games are easy, and that if you lose $500 in a week you're playing poorly and the games are no good. Swings happen.

[skipperbob]

[ QUOTE ]
raptor lives in texas, where it's common to be married by 14, but only if it's to a family member.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't remember the previous moderator ragging on members /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[citanul]

there was a previous moderator? you mean chuck? he just thinks the bad things, he doesn't say them.

citanul

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
care to make a wager raptor????

[/ QUOTE ]

raptor hasn't gotten out of 9th grade yet, so he hasn't had to do reading comprehension yet.

another:

raptor lives in texas, where it's common to be married by 14, but only if it's to a family member.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

im calling 2+2 and having them revoke yer moderation 'priveledges' for berating a valued 2+2 member. im very upset with what i see here. very. holla

[citanul]

hey hey, i didn't berate you. at bare minimum, i "pwned" you, batch.

i guess i'm in for being even shorter lived a moderator than thetimeisup.

citanul

[citanul]

if you enjoy it and you are willing and able to invest the money as purely "entertainment" while you work on your game, then there's no reason you shouldn't play, unless you have other things that you're supposed to do with the time you're using to play.

if you have no other responsibilities with the time, and the money is extra to you, and you like it, what could possibly be a reason to stop?

if the downswings make you more unhappy than the playing makes you (especially if hte downswings could just be you stinking) then stop i guess?

citanul

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still holding a 43% ITM rate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you sure?

If you averaged 2nd place once ITM, you would be ahead with that ITM. Sounds like you need to work on your 3max and HU game.

[ QUOTE ]

Last night I took that to the .25/.50 6 max NL tables and lost what was left in about 6 hours.


[/ QUOTE ]

If I were looking to rebuild a bankroll as a decent-but-still-learning player, 6max NL would be the absolute last place I'd go.

[SlackerMcFly]

Don't let the downswings get to you. I've had (limited) experience with them, but when the heaters hit (even more limited experience with them), it makes it all worth-while.

Funny how it works, but the downswings are about 20% of my overall, "normal" play (40% ITM) is about 70% of my meager career. That leaves what.....10% heaters. My profit comes from the "normal" play, the heaters take care of the downswings in a hurry and then some.

Hit the PP 22's 4x per day single-tabling and you'll be buying the wifey a new car soon. Mine loves hers!

PS. Don't believe a word that Raptor says. He is a luck-box robot that can do math. Bwaahaahaa

SlackEnStein

[Wevie]

[ QUOTE ]
And also, it's gambling, i.e, you can't really say "my goal is to make $100 a day". Your goal should be to play your best game, and/or to play X games or Y hours a day. If your ROI is there to make it, on the long run you'll make $W a day, _on avarage_. But there will be days in which you'll make -$W. I'm saying this because many players sometimes confuse between what they "should" be making on avarage, and what the numbers on the end of each day show, and it could be extremely frustrating. It's always a rollercoaster, even when you're a strong and expirienced player.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in total agreement here. I didn't mean I want to make $100 every single day - I meant I'd like to average $100 profit per day that I play over the course of 6 months to a year.

Thanks for all the advice here. I'll still play, I've decided that much. It's just a matter now of convincing the wife. She says if I deposit X dollars, she goes shopping with X dollars. She may have a nice wardrobe soon. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

So, one final question which is probably asked a LOT:

Should I:

a) Wait a month until wifey settles down, deposit $500 and start learning.

or

b) Hide a fifty dollar deposit from wifey and find a way to build this up over the next month

??

Again, thanks for the encouragement.

[Blarg]

That's a wife question, not a poker question.

Sitting in front of computers all day has left our genitals withered and useless, so don't ask our advice on that.

[KenProspero]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I:

a) Wait a month until wifey settles down, deposit $500 and start learning.

or

b) Hide a fifty dollar deposit from wifey and find a way to build this up over the next month

??

[/ QUOTE ]

We're all different, but if it were me, I'd figure that hiding $ from my wife is major -ev, in the long term.

[Wevie]

[ QUOTE ]
hiding $ from my wife is major -ev, in the long term.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol Very good point. I'm off to the freerolls to burn off some PartyPoints.

[citanul]

if your plan is to put in 500 bucks, and currently you may be a losing player, you might want to consider:

a) spending a higher % of the time you have devoted to poker reading for the time being

b) slowing down your playing. try 1 tabling or 2 tabling at the max. you're not going to feel as jazzed, but you might just learn something. same as (1).

good luck, since you have decided to play more, and you can afford it.

be good to the wife, sounds like you have enough money to indulge her the same as you are indulging yourself, so do it. don't hide either money or poker from her. bad things are sure to follow that.

citanul

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
if your plan is to put in 500 bucks, and currently you may be a losing player, you might want to consider:

a) spending a higher % of the time you have devoted to poker reading for the time being

b) slowing down your playing. try 1 tabling or 2 tabling at the max. you're not going to feel as jazzed, but you might just learn something. same as (1).

good luck, since you have decided to play more, and you can afford it.

be good to the wife, sounds like you have enough money to indulge her the same as you are indulging yourself, so do it. don't hide either money or poker from her. bad things are sure to follow that.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]


citanul = smart

[tminus]

Yeah. Ive spent ALL my free time for the past 6 month either playing single tables or reading about it and my ROI has swung between 25% and -10%. When Im up I think Im brilliant, when Im down I wonder if I missed something big. I have learned to remember three things though (1) this is a game of random numbers so the results will be erratic (2) im new to this and mistakes are expected (3) drunks love A9o

Ive come to appreciate the downswings because its a time to step back, look at my game, and ask for help. id never do this if i was winning every game.

[smb394]

If your goal is to make money in the short-term to build a bankroll for SNGs, it might be a decent idea to grind it out at low-limit ring games. Check out Homer's post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=1060198&page=4 &view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) about building a bankroll. Go through the bonuses on Party and Skins (and elsewhere if you prefer). Not sure if you'd mind playing limit, but it's a good way to build a starting bankroll.

[Moonsugar]

[ QUOTE ]
do you enjoy it?
do you have money to blow?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

These are the most important questions for 95% of the people that play poker.

[MeanGreenTT]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm 33 years old, have a good career and can afford to blow a few hundred a month if need be. I am normally spending a couple k a month drag racing, but the race car is down for the rest of the season so I started playing poker online.

I enjoy the hell out of playing, but a 50 buy-in downswing in 9 days really sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds VERY similar to how I got my start last year...have a 2000 lpe twin turbo vette in the garage, replaced the drivetrain twice last year!

Read, study, play and post specific hands here for discussion. I've been able to snag a few 1st places in MTTs as well as several itm cashes and my 22 stats, albeit a small sampling of 180 games are happily positive, single tabling over 3 weeks....good luck!

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
hey hey, i didn't berate you. at bare minimum, i "pwned" you, batch.

i guess i'm in for being even shorter lived a moderator than thetimeisup.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

I, for one, welcome our new taunting overlord.

[gildwulf]

[ QUOTE ]
That's a wife question, not a poker question.

Sitting in front of computers all day has left our genitals withered and useless, so don't ask our advice on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

NH.

In response to original poster, it just sounds like you are learning and are probably a breakeven player going through a really sh***y downswing. I would go back to the basics...play with Aleomagus' starting hand guide to beating Party for the next 500 SNGs until you get more experience and your game improves...post hands and keep reading the forum.

Good luck.

[suited_ace]

If you enjoy it, you should keep it up. I'd go back to the basics (AleoMagnus' guide) and I'd start really using the forums if I was you.

Also, check the HHs for at least 1/4 of the games you played on any given day. Post the hands that you're not sure about. I think that before setting a $/day goal, you should set your goal to be at least breaking even. You'll be learning a lot, so consider that your profit.

[teamdonkey]

you have two problems:

1. you are out of money
2. you may not be playing winning poker

solutions:

1. deposit a small amount and play smaller stakes until you've built your bankroll to the point you can play higher stakes and/or pay off previous losses.
2. deposit a small amount and play smaller stakes until you've improved your game and are confident that you're a winning poker player.

lots of places have small stakes NL ring games, and by small i mean 0.05/0.10. If you're set on SNGs, absolute has $2+.25 and $1+.15 available, im sure other sites have similar levels.

After losing several hundred dollars starting up, i put in 10k hands at 0.05/0.10 NL and it really turned my game/bankroll around.