2-4 PP hand

[MarkD]

Typical mix of players for the 2-4 game.

I'm BB + 4. Player to my right limps and I raise with AKo. Button calls (slightly loose).

Flop: K T 8 with two clubs (K and 8). Check and I bet and both call.

Turn: Jc. Check I bet and BB raises. Pre-flop limper folds and I'm now getting 7-1 on a call on a very dangerous fold in a situation I don't think my opponent is bluffing. I think he has minimum two pair and it's 8-1 against me catching mine (and I could still lose if I catch). I mucked, but had to think about it for a minute.

Thoughts on the fold?

[Tyler Durden]

Mark, since you were kind enough to respond to my hand, I'll do the same.


His turn checkraise could mean anything, but if he's a rational player I'd say you're behind here. Some of the hands that can beat you are AQ (though he may have 3-bet with that preflop) and the club flush. But since he was the BB, he could have anything like KJ, JT and J8. But I don't think you have enough info to fold right here. I'd 3-bet the turn and fold to a 4-bet or fold if he just calls it and bets out on the river (and you don't improve).

I'd have a tough time making this fold. I think a lot of others would too.

[MarkD]

Maybe I miswrote the post (or you misread), I wasn't check raised on the turn (I would have called that most likely since a lot of players will check raise bluff / semi bluff on the turn). BB checked, I bet, Button raised me, BB folded and thought for a long time and folded. Button cold called my raise pre-flop and I don't think he is tricky.

I believe button would cold call with KJ, AQ and better. Would re-raise me only with big pairs and maybe AK. I believe he'd cold call me with worse than KJ as well (suited cards) - he liked the suited cards.

I strongly suspected I was beat and it would cost me 2 big bets to find out. The best I could hope for is that he had two small pair or possibly a KQ. The possibility of him having KQ made me want to call, but the much much larger amount of hands that I thought he could have lead me to folding.

The more I think about it the more I like the fold, but maybe I'm in the minority. I don't often fold in this position, and I've been thinking that might be a leak in my game - that's why I posted this hand.

[MarkD]

Turn: Jc. BB checked, I bet, BUTTON raised, BB folded and I debated and then folded.

Sorry about the confusion. I misworded my post. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif /sigh

[rigoletto]

I strongly suspected I was beat

I think the fold is OK, but it can be very depended on your read. Apart from KQo he could also have picked up a strong draw with hands like AcT, AcJ, 99 or he could have AK. Tricky players might also try to move you of your top pair when the flush falls, so be carefull not to fold these hands to often.

[davidross]

In the absence of a better read on the Button, I think you made the right play. Never tell anyone what you folded, and make the fold quick. It won’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that you’re folding a good hand if you think about it too long. And then you’re inviting everyone to take a run at you. But if you haven’t been laying down a lot of hands already, and you have no reason to suspect the button is particularly tricky (If he posts here you should call him down), then lay it down.

If you have the discipline to lay down top pair best kicker heads up, I think you have what it takes to make money at those levels.