Raise the turn? Bet the river? [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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Jaran

07-09-2005, 04:01 PM

UTG has been raising light. He 3bet out of the BB w/K9s and open raised in UTG+1 w/K8o. When he is in a hand, he is overagressive postflop. MP3 coldcalls with any hand that has an A in it, and any hand he would have played for one. He only bets/raises with TP/2pr+. SB is an unknown, only his first orbit at the table, but hasn't done anything to attract undue notice. Basically, I had decided that I wanted to show down against UTG, but I think I should have raised the turn to ensure it was HU on the river. Given that I didn't, who likes a river bet?

-Jaran

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG raises, 3 folds, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, SB calls, 1 fold, UTG caps, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: (17 SB) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP3 calls, Hero calls, SB calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB checks, UTG bets, MP3 folds, Hero calls, SB folds.

River: (12.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Jaran

07-09-2005, 05:25 PM

I guess this was less interesting than I thought. Anyone?

-Jaran

Duerig

07-09-2005, 06:03 PM

If he's overagressive post flop, I'd worry about getting 3 bet on the turn after you raise him. I like calling the turn and betting the river.

detruncate

07-09-2005, 06:31 PM

Hi Jaran. If you're committed to showdown, this is one of those "don't want overcalls" situations. One way or another you need to ensure it's HU on the end.

I was going to talk about just calling the turn and weighing your options on the river, but I think the turn raise is best. You've got a vulnerable hand and would very much like small pairs and 6-out draws to fold. You're also not unhappy if Villain gives up or checks to you on the river. Getting 3-bet would suck, but it's only one extra BB in a big pot since you're not going to show down in that case.

As for the river bet... will this guy call with a worse hand often enough, or does he seem like the type to give up? It would just be a straight-forward estimate based on your read. I'd tend to check through a lot unless I'd seen Villain calling light. But then again my river play is a bit suspect these days.

Interesting hand.

Edited for language because I'm an anal retentive jackass.

Jaran

07-09-2005, 11:15 PM

Since this hand was a lot less interesting than I thought, I'm gonna go ahead and post results: UTG AJo and MHIG. He actually had a lot more hand here than I expected. I still am thinking I need to raise the turn to try and push out SB (even though he did fold). If anyone would like to comment on a river bet, I would still appreciate it.

-Jaran

newfant

07-09-2005, 11:23 PM

I like a raise on the flop and then probably a call down. I don't like a turn raise because you have no pair and no draw. A river bet is prolly acceptable but I hardly ever fire on the river without a pair. I'm usually happy to take a free showdown on the river with AK UI.

Redd

07-09-2005, 11:26 PM

The value we get out of the river bet is very heavily read-based IMO; if he's the type that likes to check-call the river on the chance that you're on a bluff, then you might as well go for it. If you've seen him pull any obvious check-raises, then I wouldn't.

KingOtter

07-09-2005, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since this hand was a lot less interesting than I thought, I'm gonna go ahead and post results: UTG AJo and MHIG. He actually had a lot more hand here than I expected. I still am thinking I need to raise the turn to try and push out SB (even though he did fold). If anyone would like to comment on a river bet, I would still appreciate it.

-Jaran

[/ QUOTE ]

I like raising the turn based upon the reads, and the need to get it with UTG HU.

River bet, tho... meh... who knows what he could have caught. If you're pretty confident of his starting hands being mostly overcards than I can agree with it, but any pair, even deuces beats you.

But my aggression has been suffering a bit lately, so maybe I need to take off the skirt.

KO

bottomset

07-10-2005, 02:41 AM

I'd raise the turn here

I wouldn't bet the river given the way you played it