What to do with KQs/o past level 2 in the 5s?

[drapes]

Curtains is still asleep (it's only 2:20 EST...) and I gotta know: what should I be doing (besides fold) with KQs/o in any non-blind position past level 2? (I fold in 1+2 unless in a blind.)

Keeping in mind that I am extremely terrible, therefore still have to play by very strict Curtains/Aleo rules, and don't know post-flop play from a hole in the ground.

Thanks, fellas.

[Oluwafemi]

[post dependant upon if this is a Party SNG]

if you don't know how to play post-flop, start an account at a deeper stack site and learn. post-flop skills, IMHO, are far superior to push-fold poker.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[post dependant upon if this is a Party SNG]

if you don't know how to play post-flop, start an account at a deeper stack site and learn. post-flop skills, IMHO, are far superior to push-fold poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

so what you're saying is "hi, my name is Oluwafemi and i am a useless human being. i like not answering questions while at the same time condescending at people who ask honestly and openly for advice on a particular subject. all in all, i'd say i'm a jackass." come on man, i know you've got to be a smarter and nicer person than all of that.

drapes:

a lot depends on your stack, position, other people's stacks, and the action to you. also useful number of starting chips (800/1000/1500?).

in general though, with KQo and KQs, if there's limpers ahead of me, i'll limp from late position and if there's more than one limper, i'll limp from any position. i open fold KQo and usually KQs in ep, while raising it first in in lp. if there are several limpers and i'm in lp with a 10-13bb stack (level 3 is 25/50 still, right?) i'll often push from lp instead of limping behind. if there's one or two limpers who i feel i have control over, and possibly are generally weak players, i'll raise, especially if my stack isn't in bad shape. if i've got a large stack, all bets are off.

citanul

[drapes]

Thank you very much, Citanul. I stopped reading Jacky McJackassy's post after the Party contingency, as I only play at Eurobet.

I never limp (no hyperbole here- I mean NEVER) after L2, until maybe ITM. (Limping is a big leak for me, as I am flummoxed on the flop, 9 times out of 10.)

I guess today should be Go To The Grocery Store and Teach Drapes To Play On The Flop Day for us.

Thanks.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
so what you're saying is "hi, my name is Oluwafemi and i am a useless human being. i like not answering questions while at the same time condescending at people who ask honestly and openly for advice on a particular subject. all in all, i'd say i'm a jackass." come on man, i know you've got to be a smarter and nicer person than all of that.


[/ QUOTE ]

if so, then maybe someone needs to moderate you.

my post was'nt condescending and i'm not trying to be a jackass. it was an honest answer. most of the posters i see presenting hands from Party SNGs are constantly thwarted when faced with playing these types of hands because they lack post-flop abilities due to the structure. i've found that my post-flop experience gathered from playing Stars' SNGs has allowed me better play Party's structure.

if anything, you're coming off as more a jackass than i did by even responding in such a way. "useless human being"? i think Mr. Sklansky needs to start taking more applications and refill the postion. would hate for you drunk with power.

[citanul]

i think that limping should be rarer in higher levels, but still has it's uses. i'm not a big fan of limping when you don't have enough chips, and when your opponents don't have enough chips, to make it worthwhile. but doing a little gambooling when you've got a bunch of chips and your opponents don't have so many isn't so bad either.

at the lower level sngs, a strategy as straight forward as the one you describe is most likely a winner as well.

citanul

[citanul]

clearly if the players are "repeatedly" flumoxed by situations that appear to them in party sngs, they must occur pretty often in the party sngs. wouldn't you say? with that in mind, i'd just go out on a limb and say that if they play enough party sngs, they'll get plenty of experience on how to play post flop in the party sngs. i will grant that there are other sites that offer more time and room to enhance your post flop skills, as to cash games, but to say "to play the party games properly, it is necessary that you go to another site to hone the skills you will need to play the party games, because they are unpracticable at party" is pretty absurd.

citanul

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
clearly if the players are "repeatedly" flumoxed by situations that appear to them in party sngs, they must occur pretty often in the party sngs. wouldn't you say? with that in mind, i'd just go out on a limb and say that if they play enough party sngs, they'll get plenty of experience on how to play post flop in the party sngs. i will grant that there are other sites that offer more time and room to enhance your post flop skills, as to cash games, but to say "to play the party games properly, it is necessary that you go to another site to hone the skills you will need to play the party games, because they are unpracticable at party" is pretty absurd.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

if you read my original post thoroughly instead of being so quick to come off like a smart@$$, you would've seen that i said to learn post flop play, go to a site with deeper stacks. never did i say to, " To play Party's structure properly ", go to another site. your rebuttals are absurd. if you're the moderator, you should've just answered the guy's question and then attempted to see where i was coming from with my response instead of coming off like a Wild-West principal with two long barrels.

[drapes]

Yeah, but, this isn't about you, nor is it about a Party Sit n GO.

Bickering off-topic is not so much helpful, though reading through some of your other posts, it seems that you may be a crazy person, so this may be par for the course?

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
if you read my original post thoroughly instead of being so quick to come off like a smart@$$,

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with my reading of your post appears to be that i took the time to do it at all.

[ QUOTE ]
you would've seen that i said to learn post flop play, go to a site with deeper stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

that i did see. what i didn't see was how that was in any way related to the question asked by the OP. in addition, since the problem occurred at party, how is it that the OP couldn't learn to play these types of situations at party? clearly the hands come up there, and come up there often enough to practice.

[ QUOTE ]
never did i say to, " To play Party's structure properly ", go to another site.

[/ QUOTE ]

nor did i, i didn't mention the structure, i was just talking about playing poker at party, period. your post implied that to learn to play well at party, one should leave, go to another site, and then come back when you are ready. that's all. and that i find ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
your rebuttals are absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

pot. kettle. black.

[ QUOTE ]
if you're the moderator, you should've just answered the guy's question and then attempted to see where i was coming from with my response instead of coming off like a Wild-West principal with two long barrels.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is not the moderators' job to provide the accurate and speedy response to every question. just because i am the moderator does not mean that i am not entitled to participate in strategy discussions, or to be wrong occasionally, or to be a dick occasionally. also, the op is not a "guy." i see and saw where your response was coming from. it was coming out of left field entirely was the problem. perhaps if you had tried to answer the person's question at all, i wouldn't have been miffed. but these "hi, i'm not going to answer your question because you'd be able to learn better if you did this for yourself" types of things make me upset. i don't see myself at any point coming off as any kind of "wild west principal," at any point. just the poster citanul, a bit rough as usual, but name in green. the green just means that i remove spam and useless threads, and attempt to put some order into the forum.

citanul

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, but, this isn't about you, nor is it about a Party Sit n GO.

Bickering off-topic is not so much helpful, though reading through some of your other posts, it seems that you may be a crazy person, so this may be par for the course?

[/ QUOTE ]

this coming from someone who called me Jacky McJackassy.
what other so called posts have you read where i have bickered off topic? there is nothing crazy or offending about my original post. if you took it that way, that's your perogative.
it was no where near the level of citanul's response to me or some of the others on these boards.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you read my original post thoroughly instead of being so quick to come off like a smart@$$,

[/ QUOTE ]

the problem with my reading of your post appears to be that i took the time to do it at all.

[ QUOTE ]
you would've seen that i said to learn post flop play, go to a site with deeper stacks.

[/ QUOTE ]

that i did see. what i didn't see was how that was in any way related to the question asked by the OP. in addition, since the problem occurred at party, how is it that the OP couldn't learn to play these types of situations at party? clearly the hands come up there, and come up there often enough to practice.

[ QUOTE ]
never did i say to, " To play Party's structure properly ", go to another site.

[/ QUOTE ]

nor did i, i didn't mention the structure, i was just talking about playing poker at party, period. your post implied that to learn to play well at party, one should leave, go to another site, and then come back when you are ready. that's all. and that i find ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
your rebuttals are absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

pot. kettle. black.

[ QUOTE ]
if you're the moderator, you should've just answered the guy's question and then attempted to see where i was coming from with my response instead of coming off like a Wild-West principal with two long barrels.

[/ QUOTE ]

it is not the moderators' job to provide the accurate and speedy response to every question. just because i am the moderator does not mean that i am not entitled to participate in strategy discussions, or to be wrong occasionally, or to be a dick occasionally. also, the op is not a "guy." i see and saw where your response was coming from. it was coming out of left field entirely was the problem. perhaps if you had tried to answer the person's question at all, i wouldn't have been miffed. but these "hi, i'm not going to answer your question because you'd be able to learn better if you did this for yourself" types of things make me upset. i don't see myself at any point coming off as any kind of "wild west principal," at any point. just the poster citanul, a bit rough as usual, but name in green. the green just means that i remove spam and useless threads, and attempt to put some order into the forum.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

so if it's your job to restore order, why the "useless human being" remark? that does'nt sound like restoring order to me, that sounds like you're promoting conflict. my post did'nt imply to learn to play well at Party, you need to play at a deeper stack site. it implied directly what it meant- POST FLOP.

either way, my discussion with you is over. do you, dawg. just make sure you don't drive after you drink--- power or no power.

[citanul]

there is citanul poster and citanul moderator, and the one doesn't have to over-rule the other all the time. so citanul the poster can be a bit of a dick if he wants, just as everyone else can too.

citanul

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
there is citanul poster and citanul moderator, and the one doesn't have to over-rule the other all the time. so citanul the poster can be a bit of a dick if he wants, just as everyone else can too.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

key word [ dick ]. do you, dawg.

[drapes]

I have yet to hear any actual imput re. KQ. Unless you have some real non-crazy person advice to offer here, why don't you go wag your dick someplace else?

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to hear any actual imput re. KQ. Unless you have some real non-crazy person advice to offer here, why don't you go wag your dick someplace else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Desdia's never beaten the $5's in two years that I know of and really is kinda crazy so you'll be waiting a while.

A good rule of thumb for KQ if you are really bad postflop and don't want a standard raise to be called is just to fold it above...call it 8 BB and push below that.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have yet to hear any actual imput re. KQ. Unless you have some real non-crazy person advice to offer here, why don't you go wag your dick someplace else?

[/ QUOTE ]

Desdia's never beaten the $5's in two years that I know of and really is kinda crazy so you'll be waiting a while.

A good rule of thumb for KQ if you are really bad postflop and don't want a standard raise to be called is just to fold it above...call it 8 BB and push below that.

[/ QUOTE ]

who is Desdia? i have'nt even been playing poker 2 years, much less the $5s.

*i don't have a problem beating the $5s. i enjoyed my mini-4th of July vacation immensely from the money i've made in the last four weeks 4-tabling on Stars. since i don't rely on poker as my main source of income, it's all gravy. do you, dawg.*

long live the $5!

[bkbluedevil]

I don't see wha the big fuss about this thread is. I agree with the advice Citanul gave about playing it preflop for the most part. Pushing an 13x stack over UTG agressive limpers can be dangerous so watch out for that.

I do see what the other poster was talking about here. A lot of people are bad on the flop and could learn a lot by playing ring games or on another site for a while. I don't think his advice about playing on stars is ridiculous (though I never have). Some people on here have VPIP of around 8 for the first few levels, this is most definatly a leak IMO. You need to be able to pick up some dead money. On full tilt right now, Howard L has an article about how you can become a better hold em player by playing other games such as stud and razz. I think this is an extension of that concept.

[Oluwafemi]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see wha the big fuss about this thread is. I agree with the advice Citanul gave about playing it preflop for the most part. Pushing an 13x stack over UTG agressive limpers can be dangerous so watch out for that.

I do see what the other poster was talking about here. A lot of people are bad on the flop and could learn a lot by playing ring games or on another site for a while. I don't think his advice about playing on stars is ridiculous (though I never have). Some people on here have VPIP of around 8 for the first few levels, this is most definatly a leak IMO. You need to be able to pick up some dead money. On full tilt right now, Howard L has an article about how you can become a better hold em player by playing other games such as stud and razz. I think this is an extension of that concept.

[/ QUOTE ]

i became a better NLHE player by playing NL Omaha 8 or Better--- post-flop especially.

[citanul]

yo, where did you find NL o8?

citanul