Road Courtesy

[The Dude]

So I'm driving through the country roads out by Mt. Rainier, WA this morning. The speed limit is ridiculously low and WA cops are pretty Nazi, so I've got my radar detector out. As I approach a bend in the road, my radar detector goes off, so I begin to slow down. Just as I begin to round the corner, a Jeep Grand Cherokee comes the other way and flashes me three times. Sure enough, just around the corner is a cop parked on the side of the road looking for speeders.

Now, I was quite amazed by this actually. You see, I heard one person back when I first got my license tell me that they like to flash people to warn them a cop is coming, and I've done it ever since. But this is the first time anybody's ever done it for me, and of the dozens of times I've brought this up with others, not a single one of them does it either. I wish I could remember who it was that originally told me, but I can't.

This event has done much to boost my hope that there are other observant, considerate drivers out there. (You know, the kind that will notice when a car behind them at a stoplight wants to take a free right but doesn't have room, so they pull forward a few feet to let them by.) Anybody else do this?

[Los Feliz Slim]

Yes, I do that. I've also moved into the left lane when approaching a stoplight when I can see the guy behind me is turning right.

I always thought the lights-blinking to warn about a cop was a Massachusetts thing, because I've never seen it anywhere else. When I lived in St. Louis I once had a car about a half mile ahead of me pull over because I was blinking my lights to warn oncoming cars.

Inconsiderate, stupid, obnoxious, oblivious drivers outnumber us about 1,000,000 to 1. If they drive you as crazy as they do me, I suggest you never visit Los Angeles.

[Larimani]

Warning other drivers is a crime & if you get caught doing it you goin' DOWN boy!

P.S.: There are speed regulations & cops for a reason... you pay taxes to pay the cops and then sabotage their work?

[The Dude]

Go away.

[Macdaddy Warsaw]

I've done it and seen others do the headlight flash in upstate NY too.

[Larimani]

You know it makes sense. Go back to your 4-monitors.

[RunDownHouse]

Yes, I do it (used to live in St. Louis, too). Its pretty rare I see someone reciprocate, though.

And a friend of mine has told me that he saw someone get pulled over for doing this, fwiw.

[razor]

[ QUOTE ]
cops for a reason...

[/ QUOTE ]

and yet we still have left lane bandits and untold numbers of donk drivers.

[[censored]]

I do it whenever I can.

[[censored]]

[ QUOTE ]

And a friend of mine has told me that he saw someone get pulled over for doing this, fwiw.

[/ QUOTE ]

unlikely.

[Arbogast]

I live in St. Louis, and have been saved many times by the flashing light people. Maybe it's cause I speed so much.

My biggest beef - people who like to enforce the speed limit in the passing lane, or people who match speeds on a two lane road, blocking everyone else behind them.

I'm a big believer in using the left lane to let people make a right. Glad to hear there are others (although apparently not is St. Louis).

-Arbogast

[TheTROLL]

Used to be common practice in the UK too, but human roadside speed traps are pretty rare now with the advent of those infernal cameras...

[gonores]

The practice of pulling people over for flashing high-beams is not uncommon in Wisconsin. Then again, high-beam flashing is a very common practice for motorists. We don't just do it to alert people to cops...we do it any time a driver should pay extra attention to the road (accident ahead, deer spottings, junk in the road, etc.)

I'd say the weeks I've either flashed or been flashed slightly outnumber the weeks I haven't flashed or been been flashed.

[lucas9000]

i do this too, when appropriate. generally when i'm driving though i just want a machine gun turret to "flash" at other drivers.

[ChipWrecked]

People in the Ozarks will nearly always flash for a speed trap.

Of course, they also wave to other drivers and all kinds of goofy, friendly stuff.

[spamuell]

[ QUOTE ]
Used to be common practice in the UK too, but human roadside speed traps are pretty rare now with the advent of those infernal cameras...

[/ QUOTE ]

Do speed cameras actually bother you? They are SO easy to spot, there is a huge yellow box which you can see from hundreds of feet away, and there are white lines on the road.

The only reason you wouldn't see a speed camera ahead would be if it was around a corner and you really shouldn't be speeding around corners if you don't know the area.

You can really only get flashed if you're not looking at the road and that actually is dangerous. And even then, half of the cameras don't work anyway.

[Dead]

I do this sometimes, but I don't use high beams. I just turn the headlights on and off 3 or 4 times. Am I doing it wrong?

[ChipWrecked]

Depends whether you'd rather be gunned down by a gang, or kill a helpless squirrel.

[mason55]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

And a friend of mine has told me that he saw someone get pulled over for doing this, fwiw.

[/ QUOTE ]

unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Many states tried to do this on under many different laws. It was appealed and found to be a free speach right. Thus OP's friend probably did get pulled over but it is no longer illegal (it might still be on the books in some states but there is precendent if you really want to fight it)

[The Dude]

I wouldn't say you're doing it wrong - I'm sure they get the point the same. Unless of course it's at night, I'd rather flash high beams than turn my lights off for a split second.

Does anybody else find it strange that someone from the UK is trying to tell us what we should and shouldn't encourage in our legas system? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

[siccjay]

[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime & if you get caught doing it you goin' DOWN boy!

P.S.: There are speed regulations & cops for a reason... you pay taxes to pay the cops and then sabotage their work?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a douchebag.

[Dead]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime & if you get caught doing it you goin' DOWN boy!

P.S.: There are speed regulations & cops for a reason... you pay taxes to pay the cops and then sabotage their work?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a douchebag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't pay attention to Laramani. He's from the UK and is a little fckhead. It is not illegal to flash drivers here.

[rusellmj]

I learned about this from my pops. I find I really only have the opportunity to do this on road trips where there are long stretches of nothing. When I spot Smokey hiding in the bushes I'll try and warn others. I've had truckers flash back thanking me, but I really can't remember anyone doing this for me. I don't have a radar detector, but have learned several tactics through the years to keep from getting caught. My dad lives about 50 miles from Mt. St. Helens and flashing gets used much more in those winding mountain roads of WA.

[Pocket Trips]

[ QUOTE ]
You know it makes sense. Go back to your 4-monitors.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great just what OOT needs... another troll

[TheTROLL]

No, don't really have a problem with them from a traffic control point of view, they're only enforcing an existing law, after all... I just find the concept mildly unpleasant, can't really explain why - feels a bit "1984" or something, I guess.

[34TheTruth34]

[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime

[/ QUOTE ]

I vaguely remember reading that there was a court case involving this. IIRC, it was ruled that it is covered by freedom of speech and is, therefore, legal and constitutional. Anyone know the details?

[kerssens]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, I do that. I've also moved into the left lane when approaching a stoplight when I can see the guy behind me is turning right.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad there are other. I've found in the last five years or so that I've become a much better driver, staying right on the freeway unless I'm passing, etc. I never understand the unnecessary lane changes that I see a lot. If it's midnight and the highway is practically empty why do people make lane changes? Is it boredom?

[bernie]

I do it and have had it done for me. I like it.

b

[SparkyDog]

[ QUOTE ]
People in the Ozarks will nearly always flash for a speed trap.

Of course, they also wave to other drivers and all kinds of goofy, friendly stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is very true. That or we rev our engines if we drive big loud trucks (most of us do).

Do you live in the Ozarks or just visit?

[BadBoyBenny]

I do it when I remember, I used to be better about it. Both times when I was flashed and I thought someone was doing it for me, it just turned out to be deer in the road.

Someday it will happen though...

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't have a radar detector, but have learned several tactics through the years to keep from getting caught.

[/ QUOTE ]

such as? help your fellow OOTers out.

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]

Does anybody else find it strange that someone from the UK is trying to tell us what we should and shouldn't encourage in our legas system? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't you like when people talk about things as if they were an expert, when they really are completely wrong in so many ways...

[Luv2DriveTT]

Interesting, this is something I have always done (I use a radar detector). But I also flash when someone is going too slow and I want them to speed up so I can pass. Is that not a common practice as well? Is there a specific # of times we are supposed to flash?

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[bobdibble]

[ QUOTE ]
This event has done much to boost my hope that there are other observant, considerate drivers out there.

[/ QUOTE ]

In WA? Not likely.

[fluxrad]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime

[/ QUOTE ]

I vaguely remember reading that there was a court case involving this. IIRC, it was ruled that it is covered by freedom of speech and is, therefore, legal and constitutional. Anyone know the details?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This was a court case in one of the circuit courts, (Alabama IIRC). They ruled it was considered freedom of speech. Although this wasn't a SCOTUS case, so it doesn't necessarily apply to all other judisictions I would be exctremely surprised to see other courts uphold a fine for warning motorists given the precident.

[nothumb]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting, this is something I have always done (I use a radar detector). But I also flash when someone is going too slow and I want them to speed up so I can pass. Is that not a common practice as well? Is there a specific # of times we are supposed to flash?

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

AFAIK there is no specific code for this. If you come zooming up behind someone and flash the meaning is pretty clear. Likewise if you are oncoming. I get flashed pretty regularly in a few areas. (Western MA)

Where I live, I flash anybody that looks like a local if there's a speed trap. Tourists I leave to the cops.

NT

[JackThree]

i flash at people too, i'm currently stationed in alabama =(

[Sundevils21]

And I thought this thread was going to be about getting road-head /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I saw someone do that to me once and I couldn't figure out why, until I saw a cop a little ways ahead. I now also flash my brights to warn people. I've seen others do it a couple times here in LV.

[Crveballin]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime

[/ QUOTE ]

I vaguely remember reading that there was a court case involving this. IIRC, it was ruled that it is covered by freedom of speech and is, therefore, legal and constitutional. Anyone know the details?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. This was a court case in one of the circuit courts, (Alabama IIRC). They ruled it was considered freedom of speech. Although this wasn't a SCOTUS case, so it doesn't necessarily apply to all other judisictions I would be exctremely surprised to see other courts uphold a fine for warning motorists given the precident.

[/ QUOTE ]

Check This Out (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?node=entertainment/profile&id=1072359&typeId=5)

Also

High Beam Violation (http://www.autothing.com/funthings/Auto%20News/ATnews-8-23-03-SpeedTrap.htm)

[d10]

Very rarely. If you can't avoid speed traps on your own you deserve your ticket. Also around here people flash their lights to signal passing vehicles that they're clear to move back to the right. I don't understand this and I've never seen it until I started driving around here (mid south) but it pisses me off. People flash all the time and I slow down cause I think there's a cop, but there never is.

Speaking of road courtesy, what does everyone do if there is congestion on a highway and an empty merge lane? If you're travelling in the merge lane do you move to the end of the lane and then merge or stop and make an effort to get in as soon as you can? I'm asking because where I'm from, you're liable to get shot if you're blocking a perfectly good open lane, but around here I hear people crying about people who "wait till the last second" and in fact this appears to be illegal in TN.

[Ray Zee]

so i guess the consensus here is that if you see someone speeding you should help them out so they dont get caught.

is it that most like to speed and wouldnt want to get caught themselves. or is it because you think that speed limits arent to be obeyed becuase they are set too low.

[The Dude]

It's mostly the first one, although let me explain how I feel about the second part.

Different people have different cars, different driving abilities, and different knowledge of local roads. To pretend that there is a set speed limit that is perfect for everybody is stupid. That said, there's no realistic way to take into account all the variables and set 5 different speed limits for every road.

So people are left up to themsleves to determine if they can/ should speed or not. Let me tell you, on I-90 in eastern Washington where it's open wheat fields and I can see 5 miles of road in front of me, I have no second thoughts about the rightness or wrongness of driving faster than 70mph. It's a risk/reward analysis.

If I drive 80mph, I'm still being adequately safe. However, I risk getting a ticket. That's the consequence of me driving 80. If I choose to drive 150, that's a different story. But I have no reservation speeding when my best judgement tells me that it's safe to do so. And I pass no moral judgement on others for taking the same liberty.

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody else do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I do.

As for Ray Zee's comment. Well there are many highways around here that have speed limits of around 50 mph. Nobody goes 50, not even the cops. Everyone goes 65 while the cops normally cruise around 70. At the end of the month when the cops want to fill their quota (or raise money) they go out and pull a ton of random people over. It's almost like the speed limit is set lower than what people drive so they can raise money. There is something wrong with that IMO. If you have a law, have it for a good reason and then enforce it!

EDIT: The dude has a good point about mutliple speed limits. My last sentence .... well probably isn't the best thing I could of said.

[RunDownHouse]

To be clear, the only way I ever saw anyone warn about a speed trap was not flashing headlights from normal to bright, but turning the headlights off, then back on (if at night) or flashing the brights on, then off (if driving during the day).

When driving to night, flashing from normal to bright is a warning about deer near the road, a car on the side of the road, a hint to move over/pull over towards the shoulder so the other driver can pass, etc. But turning the lights on and then off is pretty much reserved for speed traps.

[d10]

I would say mostly #2. Where I grew up, the speed limit is 55 on straight 5-lane highways. Most people drive between 70-80. I recently drove through WV, where the highways are 2 lanes wide and constantly curving. The speed limit is 70 and at times, that is even a bit fast to be entirely safe. Very few people break that speed limit. People are going to drive at a reasonable speed given the conditions of the road, and I see nothing wrong with that.

[Larimani]

[ QUOTE ]

Does anybody else find it strange that someone from the UK is trying to tell us what we should and shouldn't encourage in our legas system? MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called obstruction of justice. Check article quoted by another 2+2er (http://www.autothing.com/funthings/Auto%20News/ATnews-8-23-03-SpeedTrap.htm). Does anybody else find it funny that someone from the UK knows the U.S. legal system better than an American?


Regardless of whether it's legal or not, I got a question for you: A guy who was going real fast and that you warned slows down and avoids a ticket... as soon as he's past the speed trap he starts speeding again. A few miles down the road, he runs over a kid due to his excessive speed and kills him. Are you in part responsible for the death of that child?

[Larimani]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Warning other drivers is a crime & if you get caught doing it you goin' DOWN boy!

P.S.: There are speed regulations & cops for a reason... you pay taxes to pay the cops and then sabotage their work?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are a douchebag.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good argument. Nice analytic work.

[B Dids]

I don't speed in places where speeding is dangerous.

I speed in places and conditions where the posted speed limit is probably 20 mph below what it's safe to drive.

The speed limit (at least on the highways) was set based on fuel economy, not saftey (or at least that's what I've heard).

[Larimani]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't speed in places where speeding is dangerous.

I speed in places and conditions where the posted speed limit is probably 20 mph below what it's safe to drive.

The speed limit (at least on the highways) was set based on fuel economy, not saftey (or at least that's what I've heard).

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuel economy?? In the states?? who are you kidding?

[benza13]

[ QUOTE ]
The speed limit (at least on the highways) was set based on fuel economy, not saftey (or at least that's what I've heard).

[/ QUOTE ]

This was true when the speed limit was dropped to 55 in the 70s during the fuel crisis. The government tied assistance with road budgets to enforcement of this speed limit I believe. Today states have more freedom because there hasn't been a fuel crisis like that since.

That said, in New England I flash regularly and receive them back occasionally. Although when I get flashed I find that half of the time there is a cop and the other half there is absolutely no reason for it that I can find.

[gvibes]

[ QUOTE ]
So I'm driving through the country roads out by Mt. Rainier, WA this morning. The speed limit is ridiculously low and WA cops are pretty Nazi, so I've got my radar detector out. As I approach a bend in the road, my radar detector goes off, so I begin to slow down. Just as I begin to round the corner, a Jeep Grand Cherokee comes the other way and flashes me three times. Sure enough, just around the corner is a cop parked on the side of the road looking for speeders.

Now, I was quite amazed by this actually. You see, I heard one person back when I first got my license tell me that they like to flash people to warn them a cop is coming, and I've done it ever since. But this is the first time anybody's ever done it for me, and of the dozens of times I've brought this up with others, not a single one of them does it either. I wish I could remember who it was that originally told me, but I can't.

This event has done much to boost my hope that there are other observant, considerate drivers out there. (You know, the kind that will notice when a car behind them at a stoplight wants to take a free right but doesn't have room, so they pull forward a few feet to let them by.) Anybody else do this?

[/ QUOTE ]

The car in front once flashed their brights after passing a cop. Of course, the flashed car was also a cop, and the guy got pulled over. So, watch out!

[d10]

[ QUOTE ]
A few miles down the road, he runs over a kid due to his excessive speed and kills him. Are you in part responsible for the death of that child?

[/ QUOTE ]

No.

[Benholio]

[ QUOTE ]

Regardless of whether it's legal or not, I got a question for you: A guy who was going real fast and that you warned slows down and avoids a ticket... as soon as he's past the speed trap he starts speeding again. A few miles down the road, he runs over a kid due to his excessive speed and kills him. Are you in part responsible for the death of that child?

[/ QUOTE ]

Say someone is coming for the elevator and you don't hold the door for them. Soon after that, they gun down a bunch of people on the street. Are you responsible for their deaths?

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't speed in places where speeding is dangerous.

I speed in places and conditions where the posted speed limit is probably 20 mph below what it's safe to drive.

The speed limit (at least on the highways) was set based on fuel economy, not saftey (or at least that's what I've heard).

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuel economy?? In the states?? who are you kidding?

[/ QUOTE ]

B_Dids is correct. In the early 1970s, America faced a severe oil shortage so the U.S. Congress imposed a speed limit of 55 mph because this is near the speed for which under ideal conditions most cars are running at maximum fuel efficiency. A car traveling at 75 mph is burning 20% more fuel than a car running at 55 mph.

I'm sure that if you septn thirty seconds using Google to research this instead of being stubborn because of your dislike of America you wouldn't come off looking like a jacka[/i]ss.

[RacersEdge]

[ QUOTE ]
A car traveling at 75 mph is burning 20% more fuel than a car running at 55 mph.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know this as a fact? I'm not disputing it, but that's a much higher % than I thought/would have guessed.

[Ray Zee]

yea 20% is just about the difference with my truck. it has a fuel consumption meter in it.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A car traveling at 75 mph is burning 20% more fuel than a car running at 55 mph.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know this as a fact? I'm not disputing it, but that's a much higher % than I thought/would have guessed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this number comes from the DOE. They report a 5% drop in fuel efficiency for every 5 mph over 55 mph.

[Larimani]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Regardless of whether it's legal or not, I got a question for you: A guy who was going real fast and that you warned slows down and avoids a ticket... as soon as he's past the speed trap he starts speeding again. A few miles down the road, he runs over a kid due to his excessive speed and kills him. Are you in part responsible for the death of that child?

[/ QUOTE ]

Say someone is coming for the elevator and you don't hold the door for them. Soon after that, they gun down a bunch of people on the street. Are you responsible for their deaths?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is different. By warning other drivers, you interfered with the system that's in place to prevent people from driving dangerously. If that person had been stopped by the police, chances are he would have slowed down.
Warning other drivers of a speed trap is an irresponsible act. Speed is one of the biggest killers.

To come back to your elevator analogy, let's say that you see that the cable of the elevator is damaged but you don't do anything about it. The cable snaps and plummets to the ground... a few people die. I believe you are partly responsible for their death.

[Larimani]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't speed in places where speeding is dangerous.

I speed in places and conditions where the posted speed limit is probably 20 mph below what it's safe to drive.

The speed limit (at least on the highways) was set based on fuel economy, not saftey (or at least that's what I've heard).

[/ QUOTE ]

Fuel economy?? In the states?? who are you kidding?

[/ QUOTE ]

B_Dids is correct. In the early 1970s, America faced a severe oil shortage so the U.S. Congress imposed a speed limit of 55 mph because this is near the speed for which under ideal conditions most cars are running at maximum fuel efficiency. A car traveling at 75 mph is burning 20% more fuel than a car running at 55 mph.

I'm sure that if you septn thirty seconds using Google to research this instead of being stubborn because of your dislike of America you wouldn't come off looking like a jacka[/i]ss.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares about 1970?

In the present day and age, the U.S. does not give a flying fcuk about energy/fuel conservation.

And although the speed limit might have originated from a fuel crisis, the reason it is still in place now is because it saves lives.


For your info:

USA- oil consumption in quadrillion BTU - 37.706 (share of world total usage = 25.5%)
Oil Consumption in million tonnes
USA - 882.8 million tonnes (25.5% share of world total usage)
Total No. America - 1047.1 million tonnes (30.2% share of world total usage)
Total Europe - 755.2 million tonnes (21.8% share of world total usage)
Asia Pacific - 928.7 million tonnes (26.9% of world total usage)
Total World - 3462.4 million tonnes
OECD share of world total = 62.7%
Oil Consumption in thousand barrels daily
USA - 18490 thousand barrels daily
Europe - 15990 thousand barrels daily
Asia Pacific - 19920 thousand barrels daily
Total World - 73215 thousand barrels daily
OECD share of world total = 62.7%

[edtost]

[ QUOTE ]
And although the speed limit might have originated from a fuel crisis, the reason it is still in place now is because it brings in too much cash to abandon the program.

[/ QUOTE ]

[TimTimSalabim]

With 40,000 people killed on our roads every year, it is stupid and irresponsible to aid people in breaking traffic laws, and it has nothing to do with 'courtesy'.

[cookieb]

Pretty common here in Virginia, however I tend to agree that it is a bad move to do it