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Valuebettingtheriver

07-09-2005, 05:57 AM

PFR weak passive

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, MP3 calls, CO raises, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, Hero raises, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB

2nd hand: no reads on UTG limper.

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 5 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero raises, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls.

River: (10 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10 BB

Value bet the river?

imported_CaseClosed326

07-09-2005, 06:08 AM

I'll take a stab.

Pre-flop call looks alright. I could be wrong but, if it's a mistake I don't think it is a big one.

I like the flop c/r, a good way to clean up your ace outs unlesss the PRF has them. Plus you have out to the back door flush and the inside straight.

The turn bet seems a little iffy to me. The only other line would be to c/f and that does not seem good to me. Betting out does not seem to be the end of the world, plus you might get to fold a better hand, like a stronger ace.

River, standard.

Nice hand, nice suckout I assume.

Valuebettingtheriver

07-09-2005, 06:16 AM

On the turn checking and calling seems weak..plus I reasoned that if he did have overs he would fold to my turn bet. My preflop checkraise looks scary to a weak player, so I think betting is the best option. Perhaps I am wrong?

imported_CaseClosed326

07-09-2005, 06:19 AM

No I did not say you were wrong. Nor do I know if you are wrong or not. I would have bet in your situation as well. Try and play like you have an 8. Hope that they fold their stronger aces. I would say that was the right play, but I could be wrong.

Dave G.

07-09-2005, 06:28 AM

Hand 1
PF call is kind of marginal as long as you realise your ace is worthless. According to your "weak passive" read on COs preflop raising you are playing purely for flush value.

I don't understand the checkraise on the flop. You have absolutely nothing. Why are you trying to blow the field away to play heads up with the "weak passive" preflop raiser who almost certainly dominates your ace? You have a gutshot draw which is your only reasonable chance of winning. Check/call is good, check/raise is horrible.

Your turn bet is equally bad. Again, you have nothing, and are almost certainly behind. Check/fold is better. You are getting only 7.5:1 to continue for your gutshot and you need 10.5:1 (actually you need more because the 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif might give him a flush). You don't have enough implied odds. I suppose a peel isn't too bad here, but it's very thin - certainly not worth putting money in yourself unless you have to.

Nice catch on the river. I bet you got called all sorts of lovely names.

Hand 2
This hand is much better; well played. I don't think this is the time for a river value bet.

Valuebettingtheriver

07-09-2005, 06:58 AM

Pre-flop I agree my ace is worthless, unless I flop trips, two-pair, which is not likely. I figured in a multi-way pot unless I flopped something decent I would dump.

The reason I C/R flop is because I was getting 11 to 1 with the PFR's flop bet, and I wanted my A to be a viable out. If I counted my A as 1.5 outs, my backdoor flush as 1 out, and my gutshot as 4, I have as many as 6.5 outs making my raise profitable...no?

The turn was a complete semi-bluff, I was hoping he would drop.

TomBrooks

07-09-2005, 07:26 AM

Hand 1: I like it. Edit: I thought you had A4 and made a pair. Opps. I don't like the raise with a gutshot. Just call on the flop. Turn: Bet looks good as a semi-bluff. You could get CO to fold here a lot of times representing top pair that turned into trips.

Hand 2: A little risky, but maybe worth a shot. You'll get some deception value if you show down a loser. River check through seems wise. You might be behind here.

oreogod

07-09-2005, 07:42 AM

Hand 1 your flop check raise sucks IMO. You have nothing, u set yourself up to be three bet -- Id three bet u here with a draw if I was in the hand...dont know how many outs u are going to clean here...and I doubt it matters. You are probably going to be outkicked if u catch an ace. Yeah...CR is spew to me.

oreogod

07-09-2005, 07:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Pre-flop I agree my ace is worthless, unless I flop trips, two-pair, which is not likely. I figured in a multi-way pot unless I flopped something decent I would dump.

The reason I C/R flop is because I was getting 11 to 1 with the PFR's flop bet, and I wanted my A to be a viable out. If I counted my A as 1.5 outs, my backdoor flush as 1 out, and my gutshot as 4, I have as many as 6.5 outs making my raise profitable...no?

The turn was a complete semi-bluff, I was hoping he would drop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh no. U have maybe 2 full ace outs on the most, going from the flop. Even then u will be outkicked some of the time. Count at most 1 out there. Gutshot is 3 outs at most. with a BD flush about 5 outs. Looking at the flop, this is what u should be thinking about before u make a move like a CR.

Your bet on the turn is an intresting one, but CO isnt folding.