99 against a tilter

[Dave G.]

MP2 is loose aggressive. He's suffered some pretty bad beats, a couple due to me, and is badly tilting. He sat out for a while to regain his composure, I guess, though I don't think it helped much. Other opponents are loose passive and fairly weak.

On the flop, I think I may have the best hand, so I decide to play on, planning to raise a safe turn. When I picked up the gutshot I decided to just call for that and wait to see what the river action was like.

Thoughts? Do I raise the turn? Do I bet the river?

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif. MP2 posts a blind of $0.75.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 (poster) raises</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (11 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, MP3 calls, Hero calls, BB calls, MP1 folds.

River: (12 BB) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
BB checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks, Hero...?

[benneh]

going with your assumption that your 9s are best on the flop, they should still be best on the turn so go ahead and bet.

i check through on the river. you're probably not folding any jacks here and certainly no kings. anything less than jacks will probably fold. i don't see much value in betting this river unless villain will pay you off with 22-44, 88.

whenever i'm tilting in hands like these, i usually end up with some mediocre hand like A7s and hitting 2nd pair. i wonder if thats the case with our villain here. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[thesharpie]

I like to raise the flop

[tiltaholic]

[ QUOTE ]
I like to raise the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

this is more of a theory question(s) then commentary

1. If we think we're ahead on the flop, i'd be inclined to raise to find out where i'm at with a cheap sb. having played .5/1 party many (irrespective of tilt) will bet any pfr flop unimproved. IMO this'll charge weak draws Ax, st &amp; fl draws for staying in and hopefully fold out overs and protect my hand for later streets. Facing a flop reraise i'd call/evaluate turn but lean towards folding esp. if the pot's still multiway.

2. Recognizing that my flop raise will charge those behind me with 2 cold, likely folding them out (desired result) but playing 3 way - w/ MP2 and MP3 - is disasterous if im behind to pfr. - The ? being are the overcalls behind me worth the drawout chance v. situation of playing a S/H pot way behind.

3. Possible Line 2- So i call the flop and turn's a relative safe (eliminating my bdfd but adding a gutshot to my 2nd pair), figuring im ahead of any pair besides any J and PP&gt;9, and pfr bets out again, i'd most likely raise to charge the now drawing thin bottom pairs, st &amp; fl draws the max. Likely hands @ this point for callers include Ax's, fl &amp; st draws - but i strongly believe im ahead of all, (exception pfr) thinking the 43, 84, 89 *stopper* unlikely.
call down/check behind the river.

yeah im a new poster- been reading for awhile.
thoughts much appreciated

Edit: Looking at it again- with the flop @ 11 SB i'd agree raise the flop to limit the field- but does my #2 ? still apply considering pot size? Am i then forced into a call down situation?

[topspin]

I like calling the flop and raising a turn blank. Raising the flop offers at least 7:1 to anyone with overcards, more if other callers come along. Your equity's going to change a lot depending on the turn card, plus you can protect better there if another under falls. I think this gets you a free showdown most of the time too.

[BluEsiNsOuL]

I will raise the flop and bet the river. MP3's call is a concern. He might on a draw or have middle pair or something. Still worth a bet I guess.

[Dave G.]

I think I have a much better chance of hand protection on the turn, and how much I like my hand will change a lot depending on which card falls. That's why I didn't raise the flop.

Thinking about it some more, a flop raise would offer unfavourable odds to the several gutshot draws which are possible here. I'd really rather raise a safe turn, but this might be a case where the texture of the board forces me to act earlier than I want so those draws don't develop into OESDs or made straights.

[ QUOTE ]
with the flop @ 11 SB i'd agree raise the flop to limit the field- but does my #2 ? still apply considering pot size? Am i then forced into a call down situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on the turn action. A flop raise gives me more options because of my position particularly on the river. However, I don't want to get 3-bet by MP2 with a hand I'm not crazy about, and he's certainly aggressive / steamed enough to do that.

Since I did call the flop though, I should have raised the turn. For some reason the gutshot put me into "drawing" mode and I called it down. Oh well.

I checked behind on the river. I expected a couple of busted draws and they weren't going to call my bet, so I think this was good. BB shows T8o, MP2 shows 95o (?!), MP3 shows A6o and MHIG.

[CanadianAmy]

I agree with the call preflop.

On the Flop I re-raise, hoping to eliminate 2 opponents (even if one folds it is worth it), also I would raise to see if I can get a free card if I want one. I think that this is quite a marginal hand, you have esentially 4 outs (I may discount this a bit as there are two to a flush on the board, so mabey 3.5 or so outs, not enough to make a difference). Given the size of the pot, I don't like a fold, so Raise. (If you get a three bet back to you, I would call, but then drop it against a turn bet (This may be really bad advice, I am only learning as well))

On the turn you lose your BD flush, but gain a inside straight draw, this makes you 6 outs, but given the coordinated nature of the board now (3 to a straight, and 2 to a flush) I would discount this a bit, as you can not be sure that trips will win, so I would call it 5 outs. With 5 outs you are getting odds to call. Hopefully if you raise on the flop it would be checked to you, and you could then decide on the free card, or to bet again. Since this was a very safe card for you, I would be inclined to bet again. However, as you just called on the flop it is bet into you on the turn, and you don't have the value to raise (unless you want a cheap showdown), so I you have forced yourself into calling.

On the river I check, if anyone has a K or J, you lose, if they have nothing, they may fold, but at best you may gain one bet, but risk getting check raised, and then being forced to call 2 bets to see the hand. Also, you have been passive the whole hand so someone may take your bet as a bluff, and riase you with a J (which they have been sitting on until now due to the flush draw upto the turn, and then sat on for the river due to the King).

Amy