wierd line i took w/ QTs

[DcifrThs]

weak player (limps too much preflop, plays badly postflop, folds in odd spots, raises in odd spots) limps UTG. i raise QTcc after 2 folds and the sb who is a pretty tight player calls bb calls decent player and utg calls.

flop is Qd4h2h. check check and now UTG bets right out. i call. sb folds bb folds.

i plan on raising virtually any turn and folding to a 3bet from this player. if he calls the raise i may or may not bet the river.

turn comes Js. he bets again this time i raise and he calls after a few seconds.

river is As he checks. i decide to value bet.

-Barron

[MrStretchie]

[ QUOTE ]
weak player (limps too much preflop, plays badly postflop, folds in odd spots, raises in odd spots) limps UTG. i raise QTcc after 2 folds and the sb who is a pretty tight player calls bb calls decent player and utg calls.

flop is Qd4h2h. check check and now UTG bets right out. i call. sb folds bb folds.

i plan on raising virtually any turn and folding to a 3bet from this player. if he calls the raise i may or may not bet the river.

turn comes Js. he bets again this time i raise and he calls after a few seconds.

river is As he checks. i decide to value bet.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it.. but what if SB and/or BB call the flop too? Especially if another heart turns. Especially against a weak player wouldn't it be better to just raise the flop and hopefully isolate?

Edit: obviously that's why it's a 'weird line'.. but why?

[DcifrThs]

i called for a few reasons. first, i get to see what the sb and bb do, if its raised and 3 bet i can easily release whereas a cold call from teh sb or bb makes it look like a flush drawwhich they may ormay not have. i dont have that great of a kicker w/ my queen. i may be 3bet by utg and i can't fold immediately on the flop. on teh turn i planned to raise assuming the blinds folded or if they called. i likely wouldn't have value bet the river if one or both of the blinds stayed through the cc on the turn.

usually i do just raise the flop b/c i dont want to see a lot of cards on teh turn...but i thought he wouldn't like those same cards, since i've seen him make odd folds, he may fold QJ if an A hits and i raise his bet. clearly that proposition doesn't add much value but its something to think about.

another reason to wait until the turn to raise is because i can fold on the turn to a 3 bet from him imo. and if he has a flush draw i get an extra .5sbs out of him when/if he bets the turn, if not then i lose.5sbs.

anyways those are just somethoughts,
Barron

[golferbrent]

[ QUOTE ]
weak player (limps too much preflop, plays badly postflop, folds in odd spots, raises in odd spots) limps UTG. i raise QTcc after 2 folds and the sb who is a pretty tight player calls bb calls decent player and utg calls.

flop is Qd4h2h. check check and now UTG bets right out. i call. sb folds bb folds.

i plan on raising virtually any turn and folding to a 3bet from this player. if he calls the raise i may or may not bet the river.

turn comes Js. he bets again this time i raise and he calls after a few seconds.

river is As he checks. i decide to value bet.

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the way you played this hand. I think the bet on the end is perfect. Although there is not much fold equity... there are certainly many more hands a bad player will pay you off with then he will call with that beat you.

I would suspect he will call and table a hand that is like Q-9 or the same hand as you. Or he doesn't call b/c he had a hand like a gutshot with a flush draw that missed. Overall, I like the way you played the hand.

The call on the flop is a marginal move... but is ok b/c it allows the other decent players to define there hand for you for only one bet... if that was your thinking. Personally I would raise b/c then you force the players in the blind to define their hand muchh more distinctly!

I think you got called on the end and chopped!!

[mike l.]

good value bet obviously. rest of the hand is fine as well.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
good value bet obviously. rest of the hand is fine as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

call on the flop you like? what conditions that could marginally change would make it a raise?

RESULTS:

i value bet my QT on AsQdJs4h2h board and he called and mucked.

-Barron

[onegymrat]

[ QUOTE ]
what conditions that could marginally change would make it a raise?


[/ QUOTE ]
You mentioned that sb was a tight player. What hands would he cold-call with preflop that you would want him to see the turn for one bet? I think that would be enough for me to make both the blinds see the turn for two bets, no?

[Nigel]

Barron,

I'm wondering what your feelings are when you play a hand this way and you give a cheap turn card to a hand that beats you.

I have to post a hand I played today where I wonder if a flop call/try for turn raise move cost me the pot, I'd appreciate your thoughts on it, although the situation is different than this one. I'm going to go post it.

Anyway, I like the way you played this hand, I just find for me that it very much throws me off my game and right into subtle-tilt land when I feel I played a hand differently and it backfires, so I am curious as to your state of mind when you make these plays and they don't work.

Cheers,

Nigel