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View Full Version : Some questions about a hand, just read SSH, related questions


KriStuS
07-08-2005, 04:08 PM
Hi, this is my first post on this forum and I want to say that I think 2+2 are great, both the books and the forum. I have learned a lot from just reading in threads here. I have just read my first poker book, Small Stakes Holdem and thinks its real good. But I have not been able to play poker during the time I read the book becourse I have not had an internet connection untill now. Today was the first time I played poker since I read the book, it was a limit small stakes holdem game and all the players were loose so the things I read in the book were perfect for this game. But I could not say I knew how to play all the time, I think I got to study SSH a bit more. But one hand I played can describe the situations that I did not know quite sure how to play ,,,so I post it here and see what everybody here thinks about it, did I do the right things or did I play terrible?

I were in middle position with KQ offsuit. Utg and utg+1 limp and the others who accted before me folded. I raise and everybod fold to the button who cold call. Small blind call and big blind fold. Utg raises and with that he got all-in. Utg+1 calls, and then I did not now what to do, raise and put an end to the betting preflop or just call? I decided to raise, I thought that the button and small blind maybe would fold so I got to play the pot heads-up with Utg+1 who had not showed any strength, and if both the button and small blind calls I probably would have the best hand anyway becourse they had not showed any strength and the raise would have been to increase my expectation by get more dead money in the pot if they hopefully had hopless hands. What do you all think of my thoughts and action?

Bough the button and small blind called and utg+1 did offcourse call to. After the preflop round the pot were 19 small bets.

The flop came: 245 rainbow. The small blind checked and so did utg+1. Then I did not know what to do either, check and hope that the button would check to and give me a freecard or bet to protect my draw by hopefully buy outs and get a gutshot and/or low and middle pair to fold (I thought at my two overcards as partial outs so I counted them as 4 outs, but in this huge pot 4 outs were good enough to protect,,, or was they? Dont really know). I decided to bet, the button folded and the small blind and utg+1 called. What do you all think of my thoughts and action here aswell?

Now the pot was 22 small bets = 10.5 big bets

The turn came 8 in the remaining suit. Both small blind and utg+1 checked. I did not know what to do here either, but i decided to bet here aswell to protect my draw and hopefully get them to fold. Should I have taken the freecard instead? Anyway,, they both called my bet.

The river were a ten and both small blind and utg+1 checked, I checked aswell and utg+1 won the huge pot of 13.5 big bets with QQ. So I had less outs the I thought all the time, but he were not easy to put on such a good hand as QQ because he never did a single bet.

What do you all think off the hand, did I play terrible or did I play right? Were my thoughts correct or wrong? Thanks for taking your time to read this text by the way, I got a little longer then I expected from the beggining.

/KriStuS

Ps. I am an amateur by the way, and sorry for my bad english, Im from Sweden.

Paxosmotic
07-08-2005, 04:18 PM
First of all, welcome to the forum. I'd recommend re-reading SSHE a few more times to really understand everything. I've read it multiple times and I think that helped me a great deal.

About your play...

Raising KQo with limpers to you was very good. When UTG limps then re-raises, he's suffering from FPS (fancy play syndrome), but you don't have a hand you can cap with. He's also letting you know he's got something very strong. Reference the SSHE preflop charts for early position reraising, then add a few more hands for the chance that this guy is a dolt, and you'll see you're up against some very powerful holdings.

I like the continuation bet on the flop. The only other person who has shown strength has run out of chips, and although you don't have the best hand right now (someone at this table has an ace, plain and simple), you can probably convince them that you do.

On the turn, the 8 probably helped no one as well and I think betting again was a good play. Unfortunately for you they both called, meaning that's the last money you put in this pot if you don't improve.

On the river, you don't improve, and you check it down.

All in all, played very well. Welcome again.

KriStuS
07-08-2005, 04:31 PM
Paxosmotic: Thanks for answering!

I'm on my second reading on SSH right now. I know KQ in most situations dont are strong enough to cap with, but the only player who had showed strength were like you said utg, and he were all-in. So I thought that I had better hands then the three other players who hadn't showed any strength. Do you mean that my cap raise are to agressive and cost me money in the long run, or why shouldn't I raise? Dont really get why you dont think I should raise there. Thanks for you are taking time to comment my play by the way!

Ryan11
07-08-2005, 07:56 PM
I don't like the cap preflop. KQ offsuit is not a hand you want to be capping with preflop, just call the 3-bet. The rest of the hand I think was fine, checking the river was the right move.

Also UTG+1 must be a donk for not raising anytime and checking the river.

Also don't worry about your english, you write pretty good and I'm sure your english is better than any of our swedish.

GL and welcome

Paxosmotic
07-08-2005, 08:06 PM
As far as why you wouldn't cap with KQo, I understand what you mean. After all, if you're contributing 1/4th of 3 bets, why not contribute 1/4th of 4 bets and make the pot larger? The problem with that is twofold.

1) By making the pot larger, you essentially tie yourself to it. If you flop a gutshot, you'll have to chase your four out draw because of the odds you'll be getting.

2) On the flip side, your opponents ridiculous calls will now be correct because of the size of the pot.

These two problems would not be a big deal if you held a powerhouse such as AKs, but with KQo, your equity is such that capping preflop is pushing a very small edge. It's actually opposite of what you want. Normally you want to forgo small edges so you can push large ones. In this case you're pushing a small edge so that you can miss a large one. You simply don't have enough equity to build the pot any farther at this point.

Jake (The Snake)
07-08-2005, 11:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
When UTG limps then re-raises, he's suffering from FPS (fancy play syndrome), but you don't have a hand you can cap with. He's also letting you know he's got something very strong.

[/ QUOTE ]

LRR, especially from somebody going all-in, means very little in small stakes games. It defenetely does not mean he has a strong hand. In this case, he probably decided he would go all-in on the hand no matter what since the pot was getting big.

Often times people LRR with hands like JTs because they think it's fun to play in big pots. Don't be so quick to give credit for a big hand. And depending on how bad the cold-callers are, I think capping preflop has some merit.

KriStuS
07-09-2005, 06:53 AM
Jake (The Snake): That was my thoughts exactly.

But after Paxosmotic second answer I get why he and Ryan11 does not want to cap in that situation.

Thanks all for answering /images/graemlins/smile.gif

axioma
07-09-2005, 07:37 AM
exactly Jake, i was about to say the same.

in this case, the limp re-raise means UTG has precicely 2 cards.

given this, i cap PF and lead.