Amount to bet to drive opponents away?

[Str8Fish]

I was sitting at a table with AQo first position... I call and so do 5 others [6 bets]. Flop is AcQs5c giving me a decent set of 2 pair. Now I'm thinkin to myself... maybe one of these people has 2 clubs and may be going for his flush... so I put in 8 bets more figuring the next person who calls would have to call 8 bets out of 14, or 57% pot odds. This SHOULD clearly drive out someone going for their flush at 35% hand odds, assuming they didn't pair. So question... was this too aggressive? Should I have chanced putting a bet down that gave them a better opportunity to see their flush? Obviously I'm not giving you all the details about every player, just answer in general terms.

[amoeba]

when you bet enough to make their draw have incorrect odds, you want a call.

when you underbet to make their draw correct, you want a fold.

assuming you lay it down and don't pay any extra if the flush comes.

[jhall23]

With 5 others in the pot with you you should make your bet on the higher side. Once one call's you might get a string of calls because they are getting better and better odds. If I bet in this situation (which is most of the time, as opposed to a C/R if there is someone aggressive who will bet in the back) it's going to be about a pot-sized bet. Not sure I follow your post, but you may have overbet the pot slightly. I typically don't do this but if there are a few calling stations then it might be worth it.

Save smaller bets for HU/3 way situations situations.

Also the title of your post is a little odd. You really don't want to drive them away. You just want them to make a mistake by calling.

[Str8Fish]

yea I should have named the title something else. I also should have put in something above 35%, but not as high as I did.

[GrunchCan]

[ QUOTE ]
I was sitting at a table with AQo first position... I call and so do 5 others [6 bets].

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this was a mistake. I would have made it 3x or 4x BB to go, to limit the field.

[Str8Fish]

You're absolutely right I should have raised this initially. Time to sit down and read these textbooks again. :-)

[jhall23]

It's really situational and table dependent. At any table you shold probably have some sort of mix between raising and limping and very it based on the situation.

[soah]

AQo UTG is not a big hand.

[Snag]

This is a 6-Max Table.

AQ UTG is a good starting hand.

1.) Preflop - 4-6x BB raise. Limit the field.
2.) 2/3 - Full Pot bet.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a 6-Max Table.

[/ QUOTE ]

Details such as this should be included in the OP. Assuming it's true.

[wtfsvi]

Limp preflop is fine. You'll be better off not raising AQo utg until you're pretty confident in your game. (And still not doing it much when you are.)

You are right that you should bet a bit less on the flop under most circumstances (one doesn't count postflop bets in terms of big blinds by the way), a little less than the full pot is ok. Just bet whatever you bet with other hands.

And it's not a 35% chance for the villains to hit the flush. More like 20%. You are setting the price for just 1 ard now, the turn card, you'll be able to set a new price for the river.

[anacrime]

You need to read The Theory of Poker...

[RiverFenix]

[ QUOTE ]
Limp preflop is fine. You'll be better off not raising AQo utg until you're pretty confident in your game. (And still not doing it much when you are.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Newer players should almost always raise +EV cards when theyre learning the game. Its the reason every beginner has a starting cards requirement chart....

[wtfsvi]

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Limp preflop is fine. You'll be better off not raising AQo utg until you're pretty confident in your game. (And still not doing it much when you are.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Newer players should almost always raise +EV cards when theyre learning the game. Its the reason every beginner has a starting cards requirement chart....

[/ QUOTE ] +EV cards? What does that mean? What I'm saying is that raising AQo UTG in full ring has less EV than limping it most of the time. Especially for newer players that has to work on their game.

Starting hand requirement charts are useless for NL. (That's kindof an ironic statement to make with the same breath as I say limping AQo utg is good, but whatever.)

[RiverFenix]

[ QUOTE ]

+EV cards? What does that mean? What I'm saying is that raising AQo UTG in full ring has less EV than limping it most of the time. Especially for newer players that has to work on their game.

Starting hand requirement charts are useless for NL. (That's kindof an ironic statement to make with the same breath as I say limping AQo utg is good, but whatever.)

[/ QUOTE ]

This was 6max, AQo is +EV so you raise. Newer players need to learn how to outplay people postflop. Raise preflop with +EV cards because odds are they have one of the best hands at the table and should get money when its a nobrainer to do so -- then they can learn how to play postflop. Of course its different for fullring, but not by too much, just the range of cards is reduced from EP/MP.

Starting hand requirements arent useless for a beginner. Should they play the same hand thousands of times from all different positions to determine what is right or should they follow a tried and true metric 90%+ of the time?

[wtfsvi]

Why do you think this is 6max? If it is, I agree OP should raise preflop.

I suppose my starting hands charts are useless-comment was a bit harsh, but they are not useful for anyone but the very beginner. People need to start thinking of the reasons why they should call, raise or fold. Not follow some chart.

[soah]

A beginner building the pot out of position with a trap hand is not +EV.

btw, "one of the best hands at the table" doesn't cut it. We're not playing horseshoes. I want money to go in the pot when I have THE best hand, not the second best or third best. Have you done any calculations on how often AQo will be up against AK and AA-JJ against nine random opponents? Think about who is going to be +EV when AQo takes on any of those hands out of position.