Should I lay thies down?

[glean]

Is calling thies big pots on the turn a leak? I am generaly thinking 8/9 BB is big enuff to call with over cards for 1 bet, but with the pf action I could definatly be dominated with AA, KK, QQ, AQ...rev dominated with KQ. Is this where I am loosing money on my big broadway hands? With several opponents in pf how many bets do I need in the pot to call the turn hear?


PokerStars 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (17 SB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (12.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls.

River: (16.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP2 bets</font>, SB calls, UTG folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 18.50 BB

[pryor15]

you're getting 4 clean outs to the nuts on the turn and if you hit your A or K you might win w/ that. you're definitely getting the odds to call.

looks ok to me

[Kumubou]

I don't bet that flop -- unless you have a read that MP2 is 3-betting really light, you are ahead of none of his possible holdings here. He would have to have JJ here for you to have six full outs here, anything else either has you reverse dominated or just dominated.

You DO have a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw, though. So I peel this flop and turn (closing the action) all day with a pot this big.

-K

[MrWookie47]

If all you had was a gutshot, you'd have to call the turn. Your overs may be good, too.

There's an argument for checking the flop. You whiffed, and MP2 3bet you. He might have a high PP, or worse yet, a set. You're likely behind (tied at best), so, since you have odds to call (huge pot), check/calling looks better.

[chopchoi]

I don't mind the flop bet. You can be pretty sure MP2 is going to raise you, and this might drive out SB or UTG. Right now, any pocket pair is getting implied odds enough to peel for one bet, hoping to spike a set. Also, if you bet and MP2 raises, AJ may fold, fearing fear a 3-bet and a cap. You might even get really lucky and get AT or KT to fold(unlikely, but possible).

Also, definately call the turn.

here's another question, suppose SB and UTG folded the river, getting 17.5:1, do you call on the off chabnce that MP2 was bluffing?

[glean]

Yea, I figured I would half to pay a raise off. But since he is next in line I thought that it would help kick the others out of the hand. They might have the odds to call with whatever they have, but face a possible bidding war and are inbetween us. Should be prity scary for um. *shrug*