"It's a mistake to think that others will act like you." - Scuba Chuck

[octaveshift]

Scuba posted this maxim in another thread, and I feel that it deserves a thread of its own.

I can't tell you the number of times I have made insane plays because I assume the villain is playing like I would in his situation.

It's a major leak for me. IE- I look at someone's position and stack, and think "If I was in his spot, I would raise with any 2." Sure enough, he raises, and I immediately assume that I have just made an amazing read, and reraise him, expecting him to fold.

(This works about 0% of the time.)

Blah. Maybe it's just me.

Anyway, thanks Chuck. I've added the quote to my "in game stickies" along with a few other quotes.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[citanul]

There are many ways to play poker.

Curtains says that he likes to play assuming that his opponents always play as perfectly as possible. I assume that he doesn't stick to this as rigidly as I've (mis)quoted him though.

One can play as if your opponents are all super-players, and assume that they will always do what is "correct."

One can assume that all players at a given layer play "as the average player does at that level."

And one can play regarding each opponent individually, adjusting to known and perceived information about them.

There's other logical and illogical ways to interact with your opponents, there's exploitable and non-exploitable, etc. But playing while taking consideration of how your individual opponents play, and what mistakes they make, is clearly a (more) profitable (than most) way to play poker.

Making uncareful assumptions about your opponents can often lead to disaster.

citanul

[fnord_too]

I think the psychological term for this is "projection". I try to base my interpretations on prior observed actions, but barring those assume that the person is playing well or is weak tight so that my actions don't get me in too much trouble (assuming trouble is avoidable).

[pooh74]

This is all true...But when you begin to notice CERTAIN players who play like you, it is well worth noting. There is a player who has been involved in maybe 50% of my SNGs played in the last week and I have him noted as a good player that deserves respect----to mean, less respect come bubble/high blinds. I loosen up my calling quite a bit with him (nothing stupid, just keep in mind that any two for him is the norm).

Long story short, since starting this, I have made 3 calls to his all-ins that i would not normally make absent this read and have gotten in as a big favorite (65%) all 3 times...so I am happy with assuming he playes like me.

Now if I had only won 1 of those 3 hands I'd be even happier!

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

pooh

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

One can assume that all players at a given layer play "as the average player does at that level."

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems to be the prevailing logic on the board, but I assume this is only because 99% of the posts include no reads.

In my games at the 55s, I tend to give villains more credit than I do at the 22s, but not much. I still see a lot of insanity, which I imagine occurs even in the 109s.

Without a read, it's probably best to assume an opponent is average until proven otherwise.

Bad players sometimes make incredible plays, and vice versa, only not nearly as often.

[tminus]

I love this topic, probably because ive lost money this way. There are, of course, patterns of behavior that can be tracked but the question is how far can you take that?

Establishing hand requirements, for example, of players during the early/middle game seems pretty straight forward. I know the difference between stealing from a tight aggressive player as opposed to a loose caller but after level 4 it all goes out the window.

[autobet]

[ QUOTE ]


I can't tell you the number of times I have made insane plays because I assume the villain is playing like I would in his situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

This has applications far beyond the poker world.

[EnderFFX]

"Bad players sometimes make incredible plays"

for the wrong reasons... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just because the correct play was made, it doesn't mean that the correct logic was used or the player knew what he was doing.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


I can't tell you the number of times I have made insane plays because I assume the villain is playing like I would in his situation.


[/ QUOTE ]

This has applications far beyond the poker world.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I find most interesting is that in the real world in the situations where this concept comes up most often, I find that "villain" is usually the best term for the other person as well.

citanul

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
"Bad players sometimes make incredible plays"

for the wrong reasons... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just because the correct play was made, it doesn't mean that the correct logic was used or the player knew what he was doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. You shouldn't assume someone is good because you saw them make a great play.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"Bad players sometimes make incredible plays"

for the wrong reasons... /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just because the correct play was made, it doesn't mean that the correct logic was used or the player knew what he was doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's my point. You shouldn't assume someone is good because you saw them make a great play.

[/ QUOTE ]

ah, now my son you are learning. now, when you see someone make a bad/spite call in the late game, you will know not to think they are bad immediately as well. and after that, people will stop thinking that they need to make nearly as many intergame image plays. and then i can get back to raping the bubble.

citanul

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

This has applications far beyond the poker world.

[/ QUOTE ]

And poker has applications far beyond the poker world.

Take a look at the cover of Theory of Poker, and think about it in the context of a relationship:

Bluffing and Semi-Bluffing
Value of Deception
Slow Playing
Position
Reading Hands

/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[FieryJustice]

I used to assume everyone knew how a big stack on the bubble but this is the one thing that most people have no clue how to do. Also, some people tend to call with trash preflop in all levels. Basically, some people are just plain bad. The key is to figure out which ones suck and use their crappy play aganist them.