KJs Preflop - Let's review

[Paxosmotic]

I've been practicing KJs today, as it were. Loaded up Wilson's Turbo and I'm just playing a hundred or two hands of it, seeing what interests me. Trying to master those good but not great hands such as KJs and AQo. I'm relatively confident in my postflop play with KJs, I just want to make sure I'm not making poor decisions with the hand preflop.

All things being equal, consider table to be a standard Party 2/4 semi-loose aggressive with a few donators.

Scenario 1

Tight-passive/aggressive opens from UTG+2. He will do this with AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo.

Loose-aggressive MP1 cold calls. He will do this with any pair, any suited ace and quite a few offsuit, Kxs, Qxs, and suited connectors down to about 65s and 85s. He's essentially looking for ways to give away his money.

I'm in MP3, should I call two cold here? There's a good chance I'm dominated, but is my hand strong enough to sneak in with?




Scenario 2

Folded to me in UTG+2, open raise?




Scenario 3

I'm on the button. A thinking TAG from 2+2 raises from UTG+1. I'd normally call on the button no problem, but this time it's folded around to me. Without dead money to pad the pot, should I be folding this, or is it still a call?

How about in the small blind?

How about in the big blind?



Scenario 4

I limp UTG. UTG+2 (loose-aggressive) limps, MP1 (thinking TAG) raises, MP2 (also a thinking TAG) 3-bets. MP3 and Button cold call all 3 and big blind call. I've got 8:1 immediate odds and bad position throughout the hand. Call or let this go preflop?



Scenario 5

I'm in the big blind. MP2 limps and the button limps. Is my edge large enough here to raise? I would in a heartbeat with AJs, but how's KJs looking?




In all scenarios, let's discuss why one action is better than another, not just what that action is. If the given action is 'call', what would change about the situation to make it a raise or a fold? If it's a fold, what would change to make it a call? That kind of thing. Let's analyze KJs in far more depth than we ever cared to.

[SmileyEH]

Hand1: I fold

Hand2: Easy raise

Hand3: Easy fold

Hand4: Def. Call

Hand5: Depends on how loose the limpers are. If they are bad raise it up, otherwise check.

-SmileyEH

[damaniac]

I don't see any need to analyze these all that deeply, most of them are pretty obvious.

For ex...

Hand 1: Your hand is dominated by basically everything UTG+2 raises, and you have exactly one guy padding the pot so far. This is a call...if you hate money.

Hand 2: Many (most?) of us raise KJs UTG in a lot of games. That may be debatable or table dependent; your hand is way too strong to do anything but 2 positions later.

Hand 3: You are joking right? A TAG EP raise and you are considering calling? Look back at the hand range you put for the TP-AG, the ranges are probably similar.

Hand 4: You're 8:1 to flop a flush draw, which will be very profitable given the multiway nature of the pot. Add in those times you flop an OESD, flush, straight, or two pair, and you are money. Just have to be capable of folding top pair in many circumstances.

Hand 5: Usually raise, esp if they are loose/bad postflop, or weak-tight. If they are tight checking is fine, but you may well have enough equity to raise anyway.

[private joker]

In scenario 4, I'd open-raise rather than open-limp. For the other situations I agree with Smiley (except 3 isn't an easy fold, it's a close fold).

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see any need to analyze these all that deeply, most of them are pretty obvious.

[/ QUOTE ]
I tried to find close situations but these are about the closest I could find. What can I say, KJs is a relatively strong hand that is going to see a lot of flops. I'm just trying to find the margins.

However, I don't think that KJs is a fold in the BB.

[BWebb]

I'm just getting back into the flow of playing regularly, so my advice might not be correct but I'll give it a shot.

[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 1

Tight-passive/aggressive opens from UTG+2. He will do this with AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo.

Loose-aggressive MP1 cold calls. He will do this with any pair, any suited ace and quite a few offsuit, Kxs, Qxs, and suited connectors down to about 65s and 85s. He's essentially looking for ways to give away his money.

I'm in MP3, should I call two cold here? There's a good chance I'm dominated, but is my hand strong enough to sneak in with?



[/ QUOTE ]

I fold in this spot. The chance that you are dominated, plus the fact everyone might fold behind me makes me pass. I think I need to know that either the CO or Button will call, along with the BB.


[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 2

Folded to me in UTG+2, open raise?



[/ QUOTE ]

Raise. Chance of limiting the field, plus you quite possibly have the best hand. Calling sometimes is okay too, I believe.


[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 3

I'm on the button. A thinking TAG from 2+2 raises from UTG+1. I'd normally call on the button no problem, but this time it's folded around to me. Without dead money to pad the pot, should I be folding this, or is it still a call?

How about in the small blind?

How about in the big blind?



[/ QUOTE ]

Fold, fold, call (I think). Chance of being dominated is too great to play this hand heads up against a tight player. In the SB, same as on the button, only this time with worse position. BB, you have bad position, but your getting 3.5 to 1 immediate odds. I think that makes it a call.

[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 4

I limp UTG. UTG+2 (loose-aggressive) limps, MP1 (thinking TAG) raises, MP2 (also a thinking TAG) 3-bets. MP3 and Button cold call all 3 and big blind call. I've got 8:1 immediate odds and bad position throughout the hand. Call or let this go preflop?



[/ QUOTE ]

The added players make this a call for me. The position isn't too bad in that you can checkraise 3 or 4 opponents if you flop a monster. Be careful if you flop top pair.

[ QUOTE ]

Scenario 5

I'm in the big blind. MP2 limps and the button limps. Is my edge large enough here to raise? I would in a heartbeat with AJs, but how's KJs looking?



[/ QUOTE ]

Easy raise, lack of raise shows you probably have the best hand, get the money in now.

[SeaEagle]

Scenarios 1 & 3: Easy folds, except from the BB.
Scenario 4: Easy call, if you can get away from TPGK hands against action.
Scenario 5: Raise only if your postflop skills are much better than your opponents (reads important here).

Scenario 2 is interesting. IIRC, SSHE doesn't recommend raising KJ in EP even at a loose table. I believe HEFAP folds it in EP. I'd guess the concensus here will be to raise it up though.

[mtdoak]

Scenario #1. No, You shouldn't be cold calling KJs only getting 3.75-1 on your call (The raiser, the caller, and the SB/BB). I would need 5 limpers in to make a profitable call, and even then I would tread lightly unless you flop a monster.

Scenario #2. This really depends on the texture of the table. Since it is suited, in a full game, I'm more apt to open limp in EP with KJ and KTs. In a looser game I'll raise, in a tighter game I'll limp.

Scenario #3. W-w-w-what? A tag opens from EP and your thinking about cold calling??? No no no. KJs is a classic trap hand. This should be an instamuck. Best case scenario your 60/40 dog vs AQ. Your probably closer to a 3-1 or 4-1 dog here.

Scenario #4. Getting 8-1 on your call, even if your not closing action, you should call here. This pot is going to get big and you have a decent multiway hand. But be ready to let it go if an ace comes on the flop and you don't get a good flush draw or straight draw.

Scenario #5. Yes, your edge is big enough to raise here. However, I think its purely situational. Will you be able to take down the pot on the flop even if you miss? Or will these players call you down with bottom pair? Whereas earlier you were the one with the trapped hand against the EP raiser, here, you hold a good trap hand against LP limpers. Your going to see JT, J9, K9, and many other worse hands to pay you off here if you hit the flop.

[Dagger78]

Scenario 1

[ QUOTE ]
Tight-passive/aggressive opens from UTG+2. He will do this with AA-TT, AKs-AJs, AKo-AQo.

Loose-aggressive MP1 cold calls. He will do this with any pair, any suited ace and quite a few offsuit, Kxs, Qxs, and suited connectors down to about 65s and 85s. He's essentially looking for ways to give away his money.

I'm in MP3, should I call two cold here? There's a good chance I'm dominated, but is my hand strong enough to sneak in with?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to fold here. Due to the fact you are likely dominated if UTG +2 has an unpaired hand, or he has a big pair, diminishes the value of any top pair hand you make. If UTG+2 plays passively post-flop this hand might be worth a call if it's played well post-flop. Given this I would fold and save myself the trouble.

Scenario 2

[ QUOTE ]
Folded to me in UTG+2, open raise?


[/ QUOTE ]

I like to raise here. I do this because I like to be the aggressor in most of the hands I play. Also, in this case you are likely to push out the tighter players with a raise and get weak calls from the weak players who won't respect a raise. I'm very open to discussion on this part as I'm not sure this play is correct, only that it's the way I play it.

Scenario 3

[ QUOTE ]
I'm on the button. A thinking TAG from 2+2 raises from UTG+1. I'd normally call on the button no problem, but this time it's folded around to me. Without dead money to pad the pot, should I be folding this, or is it still a call?

How about in the small blind?

How about in the big blind?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would again fold this on the button, you're unlikely to make alot of money if you flop the best hand, but could lose alot if you flop the 2nd best hand.

For the same reasons I would fold in the small blind.

I would call in the BB, but I would play it like a wuss if I flopped top pair, and check on fold if I missed. I don't like being out of position against a good player with a marginal hand, but getting 3.5-1 preflop is too good to pass up.

Scenario 4

[ QUOTE ]
I limp UTG. UTG+2 (loose-aggressive) limps, MP1 (thinking TAG) raises, MP2 (also a thinking TAG) 3-bets. MP3 and Button cold call all 3 and big blind call. I've got 8:1 immediate odds and bad position throughout the hand. Call or let this go preflop?


[/ QUOTE ]

I would call here due to the dead money in the pot. You're going to have to flop a big hand to feel good about it so you're top pair value is obviously fairly low. But the size of the pot you'll win if you make the straight of flush makes this a good call, since you're going to get paid off very well if you hit.

Scenario 5

[ QUOTE ]
I'm in the big blind. MP2 limps and the button limps. Is my edge large enough here to raise? I would in a heartbeat with AJs, but how's KJs looking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would raise here if the limpers are typical loose players 30-40% vpip. The only hand I fear here is one of the limpers is in with a random ace, but that's easy to get away from if an ace flops, otherwise I assume my hand is best here.

[Paxosmotic]

A little postflop work...

Scenario 3a

Hero has KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the big blind. UTG+1 raises, folded to Hero who calls.

2 to the flop for 4.5sb

Flop : K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero...




Scenario 4a

Hero has KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif UTG. Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 raises, MP2 3-bets, MP3 calls, Button calls, BB calls, Hero calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

7 to the flop for 21.5sb

Flop : K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, Hero...

[shant]

1. Fold
2. Raise
3a. Fold b. Fold c. Fold
4. Call
5. Raise if they suck.

[private joker]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
A little postflop work...

Scenario 3a

Hero has KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the big blind. UTG+1 raises, folded to Hero who calls.

2 to the flop for 4.5sb

Flop : K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero...



[/ QUOTE ]

Check/call, check/call, bet.

[shant]

Postflop #1: If somehow I got to the flop, check-call, check-call, bet.

Postflop #2: Check and see the action.

[Paxosmotic]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A little postflop work...

Scenario 3a

Hero has KJ/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the big blind. UTG+1 raises, folded to Hero who calls.

2 to the flop for 4.5sb

Flop : K/images/graemlins/heart.gif 9/images/graemlins/club.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Hero...



[/ QUOTE ]

Check/call, check/call, bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not listening to you until you change your avatar back or PM me where to find more of it.

[private joker]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Svar på:</font><hr />


Check/call, check/call, bet.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not listening to you until you change your avatar back or PM me where to find more of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, I changed it back to Mos Def out of respect for the girls. Deep respect.