Play along, QTs [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

madscout

07-08-2005, 08:55 AM

SB is 26/5.4/1 (350 hands)
BB is 10.7/7.1/0 (28 hands)
UTG+2 is 19/12/1 (42 hands)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, Hero calls, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB completes, BB raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, CO folds, SB calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero...

Paxosmotic

07-08-2005, 10:19 AM

Raise to move the other two out of the hand, then take the free showdown. If it's 3-bet on the turn, call and fold the river unimproved. If he calls then leads the river, call unless it's a K or an A. I try to show this down as cheaply as possible.

madscout

07-08-2005, 12:27 PM

Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero...

I'm 100% sure SB had the "raise any" box checked.

Paxosmotic

07-08-2005, 12:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (4.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero...

I'm 100% sure SB had the "raise any" box checked.

[/ QUOTE ]
Well if we could raise getting 5.5:1, it's certainly worth a call at 12.5:1. We're definitely folding unimproved on the river now, small blind is awfully proud of his hand.

I'll check/fold the river unimproved, check/call the river if a Q or T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif falls, and check/raise if an offsuit T falls, giving us a better trips than he's holding.

Aces McGee

07-08-2005, 12:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I'll check/fold the river unimproved...snip...and check/raise if an offsuit T falls, giving us a better trips than he's holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can't be right.

-McGee

meep_42

07-08-2005, 12:38 PM

Honestly, i'm pretty close to folding this one right here. SB has us drawing dead a large, large percentage of the time, in my estimation.

He liked his hand enough to check the flop and then check the turn looking for a check-raise. Most of the time he's not worried about getting outdrawn here. I'm thinking 68, 77, and 33 a lot of the time.

I probably play the same as you, though. Call/fold UI, call 1 withe the Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, if the T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif shows up, you're in a world of hurt, though.

-d

private joker

07-08-2005, 12:55 PM

<blockquote>Svar på:<hr />
Raise to move the other two out of the hand, then take the free showdown. If it's 3-bet on the turn, call and fold the river unimproved. If he calls then leads the river, call unless it's a K or an A. I try to show this down as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this line, but as it played out with the SB 3-betting the turn, it gets more complicated -- you might be all right folding to his turn 3-bet. But if he's a donk and had the "raise any" checked because he thought he could isolate, maybe it's worth calling and see if he fires again on the river; if so, I fold. I can't imagine a pair of tens with a Q kicker is good after this action.

madscout

07-08-2005, 02:01 PM

SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero...

blackize

07-08-2005, 02:13 PM

I dont think you can fold top two here, but I dont think you can raise either. I think I just call.

Nick C

07-08-2005, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
SB 3-bets, BB folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero... 

[/ QUOTE ]

I just call.

I think there's a really good chance SB picked up a straight on the turn with J8 or 86.

If that's not the case, then he may have slowplayed a flopped set.

What you're really kind of hoping is that he just caught two pair on the turn. I think that hope makes it worth a call on the river, but the turn check/3-bet represents a lot of strength, and I don't want to pay more than I have to to show my hand down, at this point.

meep_42

07-08-2005, 02:19 PM

mtdoak

07-08-2005, 02:22 PM

Two overs, two backdoors....any like else like betting this flop? If you can knock out a higher flush draw, a better queen, or a better T, your maximizing your chances to win here in a decent size pot.

Paxosmotic

07-08-2005, 02:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'll check/fold the river unimproved...snip...and check/raise if an offsuit T falls, giving us a better trips than he's holding.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can't be right.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]
It may not be, and I don't think we'd be eating ramen for dinner if we went for a call instead of a raise if we made trips.

With that Q falling, check/call like was stated, but expect to lose this one most of the time.

Edit : I didn't know what you meant until dmbfan just told me in IM. Villain fills up when the other T falls. Wow, that takes a certain level of idiocy to miss. I'm following you now though. Wow.

Dagger78

07-08-2005, 02:45 PM

Auto raised?

Easy fold IMO

Maybe this is weak, but I think we're drawing dead to the SB too often.

Dagger78

07-08-2005, 02:49 PM

Call, I still think you're going to lose this hand often to a set or straight.

Two_Slick

07-08-2005, 02:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two overs, two backdoors....any like else like betting this flop? If you can knock out a higher flush draw, a better queen, or a better T, your maximizing your chances to win here in a decent size pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like it... also knowing what happened on the Turn, if the SB check/raises the flop it's easier to put him on a hand. The waters muddy a bit with the 3-bet on the turn.

DMBFan23

07-08-2005, 02:53 PM

after some IM discussion and reflection, I dig the turn raise, but the 3 bet is enough for me to fold without a read. given our call on the turn, I think just calling the river is prudent, even if it were a black T - a lot of the two pair combos here are improved by a T, as are sets. Q's are better for us almost because at least then his two pair couldn't have improved at the same time we did, but even a river Q makes this just a call, cause a set and a straight is still likely enough that I don't think we can be going nuts

Dagger78

07-08-2005, 02:54 PM

If I think anyone is folding 2 over cards here, then yes I like a bet. The players seem somewhat passive, so a check-raise is less likely, and might have a shot at seeing the river for 1 sb.

Althought generally I would check here also, I don't think the BB is folding 2 overcards here that often.

Paxosmotic

07-08-2005, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
after some IM discussion and reflection, I dig the turn raise, but the 3 bet is enough for me to fold without a read. given our call on the turn, I think just calling the river is prudent, even if it were a black T - a lot of the two pair combos here are improved by a T, as are sets. Q's are better for us almost because at least then his two pair couldn't have improved at the same time we did, but even a river Q makes this just a call, cause a set and a straight is still likely enough that I don't think we can be going nuts

[/ QUOTE ]Like a dog with a collar, the IM discussion has convinced me a fold is a good play here. I can't believe I missed the tainted T outs, man alive.

PokerBob

07-08-2005, 03:24 PM

raise it

PokerBob

07-08-2005, 03:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Two overs, two backdoors....any like else like betting this flop? If you can knock out a higher flush draw, a better queen, or a better T, your maximizing your chances to win here in a decent size pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not folding a better Queen here, but I don't think betting is awful.

madscout

07-08-2005, 03:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
raise it

[/ QUOTE ]

The river? Do you think we are good here > 33% of the time?

PokerBob

07-08-2005, 03:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
raise it

[/ QUOTE ]

The river? Do you think we are good here > 33% of the time?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was refering to the turn, but now that I see that you made 2-pair I'm raising that river too. IMO SB likely has a big pair that he got cute with. His pfr is only 5%, so I doubt he has a set. If the other dude had a better T, you've got him now. I raise and call a 3-bet.

EDIT: I thought the pfr check/3-bet the turn. Ugh. IF SB has a set, God blesse'm for checking both the flop and turn. IMO he made a straight or 2-pair. I just call the river.

jstewsmole

07-08-2005, 04:47 PM

call.

How do u view SB postflop?
It seems this guy played any hand he could have like a jack ass.

Slow playing a set here IMO is not a good idea with the flush available and a st8 too. Id give him credit with an attempted C/R on the flop that got checked through. I would ve expected a bet here from behind way more than not. But the fact that he checked the turn is f'ed up especially since there has been no aggression yet and its possible that it gets checkd through again.

regardless of if he had a set or a str8 checking the turn is ridiculous with anything made and kindof donkey if u ask me.

I put him on a str8 here more often than a set. yet i bellieve hero is behind with two pair very often unless the 3 betteris a total donk.

though u caught the second best card u couldve hoped for here so folding obvioulsly is not an option.