AJ and AQ in an unraised pot in the Blinds (Lotsa Hand Histories) [Archive]

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NYCNative

07-08-2005, 06:22 AM

Very often I will be in the blinds and by the time it gets to me, the pot is unraised. I am always unsure how to play this. The way I see it, if I do not raise I will have no idea where I stand. If I do raise, I almost always get a caller or two and then I am playing a notoriously troublesome hand out of position in a raised pot.

Here are some of the Hands I've had:

BIG BLIND
-----------

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP1 ($28.55)
MP2 ($24.50)
MP3 ($48.75)
CO ($22.05)
Button ($45.50)
SB ($28.25)
Hero ($61)
UTG ($24.05)
UTG+1 ($45.50)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
6 folds, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.75, Button folds.

Final Pot: $2.50

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $2.50. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($56.65)
MP ($56.40)
Button ($36)
SB ($21.55)
Hero ($112.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, Button calls $1, SB completes, Hero raises to $6, UTG calls $5, MP folds, Button calls $5, SB folds.

Flop: ($20) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($23) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Button calls $1, Hero calls $1.

River: ($26) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1, Button folds, Hero raises to $15, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $42

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Qs (one pair, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $42. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($111.55)
MP1 ($43.65)
MP2 ($48.50)
CO ($29.75)
Button ($44)
SB ($119.35)
Hero ($110.05)
UTG ($100.85)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 2 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4.50) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($4.50) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero bets $4, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: $8.50

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $8.50. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($99.80)
UTG+2 ($24.65)
MP1 ($50.10)
MP2 ($110)
MP3 ($21)
CO ($95.30)
Button ($18.20)
SB ($221.60)
Hero ($119.85)
UTG ($123.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $1, MP1 calls $1, MP2 calls $1, 4 folds, Hero raises to $4, UTG+2 calls $3, MP1 folds, MP2 folds.

Flop: ($10.50) 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $8, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: $18.50

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $18.50. 

-----

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($38.4)
Button ($30.55)
SB ($38.25)
Hero ($30.05)
UTG ($19.17)
UTG+1 ($17)
UTG+2 ($22.25)
MP1 ($25.15)
MP2 ($15.36)
MP3 ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.25, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $1.25, UTG calls $1, UTG+2 calls $1, SB folds.

Flop: ($4) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($8) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6.

River: ($20) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $9.92 (All-In), Hero calls $9.92.

Final Pot: $39.84

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Ah (two pair, queens and jacks).
UTG has Kd Tc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $39.84. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 ($16.85)
CO ($22)
Button ($36.10)
SB ($45.70)
Hero ($34.70)
UTG ($5.40)
UTG+1 ($75.75)
MP1 ($36.40)
MP2 ($48.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP3 raises to $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.75, Hero calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Turn: ($4) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button bets $4, SB calls $4, Hero folds, MP3 folds.

River: ($12) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Button bets $12, SB folds.

Final Pot: $24

Results in white below: 
Button doesn't show.
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: Button wins $18. UTG wins $6. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($23.65)
SB ($67.85)
Hero ($11.90)
UTG ($28.40)
UTG+1 ($73.05)
MP1 ($82.30)
MP2 ($10.40)
CO ($87.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.50, 3 folds, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.75) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $1.5, UTG+1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls $0.

Final Pot: $3.25

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $3.25. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($28.50)
MP ($47.80)
CO ($59.20)
Button ($71.35)
SB ($89.10)
Hero ($103.05)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls $1, MP calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero raises to $4, UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, SB calls $3.

Flop: ($11) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($11) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($11) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB folds.

Final Pot: $14

Results in white below: 
Hero has Jd Ac (full house, jacks full of aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $14. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button ($150.50)
SB ($68.30)
Hero ($80.80)
UTG ($101.15)
UTG+1 ($69.10)
MP1 ($46.50)
MP2 ($80.25)
CO ($52.25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $4, UTG+1 calls $3, SB folds.

Flop: ($9) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $5, UTG+1 folds.

Final Pot: $14

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $14.

NYCNative

07-08-2005, 06:28 AM

SMALL BLIND
------------

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG ($99.80)
UTG+1 ($20.65)
MP1 ($49.10)
MP2 ($109)
MP3 ($21)
CO ($95.30)
Button ($221.10)
Hero ($125.85)
BB ($123.40)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 calls $1, 4 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 1 fold, MP1 folds.

Final Pot: $5.50

Results in white below: 
No showdown. Hero wins $5.50. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($48)
CO ($55.15)
Button ($5.65)
Hero ($76.75)
BB ($25)
UTG ($25.65)
UTG+1 ($8.15)
MP1 ($24)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($4) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.5, UTG raises to $2.75, MP1 calls $2.75, Hero folds, BB folds.

Turn: ($10) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, MP1 bets $3, UTG calls $3.

River: ($16) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, MP1 checks.

Final Pot: $16

Results in white below: 
UTG has 6s 7s (two pair, jacks and sixes).
MP1 has Qd Jd (three of a kind, jacks).
Outcome: MP1 wins $16. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO ($144.10)
Button ($90)
Hero ($67.80)
BB ($124)
UTG ($69.45)
UTG+1 ($70.50)
UTG+2 ($34)
MP1 ($72.80)
MP2 ($123.85)
MP3 ($48.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
7 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2.

Flop: ($6) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $5, BB calls $5.

Turn: ($16) T/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, Hero calls $10.

River: ($36) K/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $15, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $51

Results in white below: 
BB doesn't show.
UTG doesn't show.
Outcome: BB wins $43.50. UTG wins $7.50. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP2 ($95.35)
CO ($57.30)
Button ($101.05)
Hero ($192.75)
BB ($82.30)
UTG ($63.15)
MP1 ($106.15)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls $1, MP1 calls $1, 3 folds, Hero raises to $3, BB calls $2, UTG calls $2, MP1 calls $2.

Flop: ($12) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5.5, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero calls $5.50.

Turn: ($23) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10, Hero calls $10.

River: ($43) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, BB folds.

Final Pot: $63

Results in white below: 
Hero has As Qh (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins $63. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 ($48.25)
CO ($52.60)
Button ($58.45)
Hero ($44)
BB ($108.80)
UTG ($42.10)
UTG+1 ($150.30)
MP1 ($47)
MP2 ($51.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, 5 folds, Hero raises to $1.5, BB calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1.

Flop: ($4.50) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $3.5, BB raises to $7, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $3.50.

Turn: ($18.50) 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $18.5, Hero bets $18.5, BB calls $0.

River: ($55.50) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $55.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ah Jh (flush, ace high).
BB has 8d 4d (two pair, eights and fours).
Outcome: Hero wins $55.50. 

-----

Hand #6817730-7973 at Lenoir (No Limit Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 06/Jul/05 08:17:00

AHfromEP is at seat 5 with $119.75.
Masta_ace888 is at seat 6 with $45.45.
NYCNative is at seat 8 with $91.20.
meek77 is at seat 9 with $10.70.
The button is at seat 7.

NYCNative posts the small blind of $.50.
meek77 posts the big blind of $1.

AHfromEP: -- --
Masta_ace888: -- --
NYCNative: Jc Ac
meek77: -- --

Pre-flop:

AHfromEP folds. Masta_ace888 calls. NYCNative
raises to $4. meek77 calls. Masta_ace888 calls.

Flop (board: 6h 5d As):

NYCNative checks. meek77 goes all-in for $6.70.
Masta_ace888 raises to $13.40. NYCNative raises to
$20.10. Masta_ace888 calls.

Turn (board: 6h 5d As 8d):

NYCNative bets $21.50. Masta_ace888 folds.
NYCNative is returned $21.50 (uncalled).

River (board: 6h 5d As 8d 2c):

(no action in this round)

Showdown:

NYCNative shows Jc Ac.
NYCNative has Jc Ac 6h As 8d: a pair of aces.
meek77 shows Qs Kh.
meek77 has Qs Kh 6h As 8d: ace high.

Hand #6817730-7973 Summary:

$2 is raked from a total pot of $58.90.
$1.60 is raked from the main pot of $32.10.
$.40 is raked from side pot #1 of $26.80.
NYCNative wins the main pot $30.50 with a pair of aces.
NYCNative wins the side pot $26.40 with a pair of aces.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 ($37.75)
MP1 ($22)
MP2 ($25.25)
CO ($47.25)
Button ($40.50)
Hero ($60.20)
BB ($41.50)
UTG ($10.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/club.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
5 folds, Button calls $0.50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, Button bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50, BB folds.

Turn: ($2.50) T/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($2.50) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: $2.50

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ac Jh (one pair, jacks).
Button has 6h 7h (high card, queen).
Outcome: Hero wins $2.50. 

-----

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($249.80)
BB ($49)
UTG ($47.95)
UTG+1 ($108.10)
UTG+2 ($24.50)
MP1 ($98)
MP2 ($223.40)
MP3 ($47.45)
CO ($50)
Button ($98.50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif. CO posts a blind of $1.
5 folds, CO (poster) checks, Button calls $1, Hero raises to $4, BB calls $3, UTG calls $4, CO folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($14) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6, BB folds.

Turn: ($26) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $37.95 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $63.95

Results in white below: 
No showdown. UTG wins $63.95. 

[THE CONVERTER TRIPPED UP ON ONE ABOVE]

barongreenback

07-08-2005, 06:46 AM

Too many hands there. Better to post a few most relavent to your question or none at all. Quite a few weren't even unraised pots.

[ QUOTE ]
if I do not raise I will have no idea where I stand.

[/ QUOTE ]
The main value of a raise vs limpers with AQo or AJo is to pick up the pot now so think of it as a steal. It doesn't allow you to know where you stand any more than not raising. The flop redefines hands too much.

For example, in this hand do you know where you stand because you raised? How does your raise stop him having a PP or a Q.
[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (10 handed) converter

CO ($38.4)
Button ($30.55)
SB ($38.25)
Hero ($30.05)
UTG ($19.17)
UTG+1 ($17)
UTG+2 ($22.25)
MP1 ($25.15)
MP2 ($15.36)
MP3 ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J, A.
UTG calls $0.25, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls $0.25, 5 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $1.25, UTG calls $1, UTG+2 calls $1, SB folds.

Flop: ($4) Q, 5, Q (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($8) J (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $6, Hero calls $6.

River: ($20) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $9.92 (All-In), Hero calls $9.92.

Final Pot: $39.84

[/ QUOTE ]

James

NYCNative

07-08-2005, 11:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Too many hands there. Better to post a few most relavent to your question or none at all. Quite a few weren't even unraised pots.

[/ QUOTE ]
I only kept in minraises since they're not REAL raises...

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if I do not raise I will have no idea where I stand.

[/ QUOTE ]The main value of a raise vs limpers with AQo or AJo is to pick up the pot now so think of it as a steal.

[/ QUOTE ]Then I'm screwed because it usually doesn't get *ALL* people to fold. It does, hopefully, weed out some limpers so I'm not in a family pot, however, making my hand easier to play.

It also sets me up for a continuation bet on the flop, which limping does not (at least not as effectively) - see the handful of times I missed on the flop but took it down anyway. I don't think I can do that if I limp.[ QUOTE ]
For example, in this hand do you know where you stand because you raised? How does your raise stop him having a PP or a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]In the hand in question, my raise did not limit the opposition (one of the key things I want a raise to accomplish) so it's tough for me to shoot out a continuation bet when I miss. But if I miss a flop in an unraised pot it's the same thing except I lost the opportunity to narrow the field and define my hand as one worthy of a raise.

You didn't tell me whether you raise or limp either.

swolfe

07-08-2005, 11:48 AM

i generally don't raise either of these hands from the blinds

NYCNative

07-08-2005, 11:56 AM

Okay, how do you do with them?

swolfe

07-08-2005, 12:54 PM

check/complete and lead out if i hit the flop.

leading the flop is about the same amount (pot-sized) as my preflop raise would be, but i have a lot more information post-flop (specifically, the flop).

NYCNative

07-08-2005, 01:12 PM

Okay - what are your numbers in these situations? Here are mine...

Code:<hr /><pre> Times Win% Won Avg VP$IP PFR%
AQs 1 100.00 $2.00 $2.00 100.00 100.00%
AQo 9 55.56 $25.75 $2.86 88.89 56.56%
AJs 4 75.00 $75.40 $18.85 100.00 50.00%
AJo 10 50.00 $25.47 $2.55 80.00 40.00%
24 58.33 $128.62 $5.36 87.50 50.00%</pre><hr />

NYCNative

07-08-2005, 01:20 PM

Actually, that is ALL cases not just unraised/minraised pots. Cannot seem to delimit PT for this...

GoCubsGo

07-08-2005, 02:00 PM

There was a good article in CardPlayer about raising from the BB. The writer was against raising because it is much easier to take down the pot if you bet after the flop into a smaller pot. I don't remember everything he said, maybe somebody else knows what I am talking about?