Can you put them on a bigger PP?

[Alpha13]

Reads are UTG: LA-P (something like 60/18/1.3) Button: LP-P

Button had me worried since he is passive, UTG is also passive postflop but does some wierd stuff, however he seems to reserve his tricky plays for HU situations (which this wasn't) With 88 flopping an overpair, do you guys see any reason to lay it down somewhere?

Thanks

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, MP calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (14.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

River: (17.75 BB) 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Final Pot: 20.75 BB

[pryor15]

i'd think about it when it came back 2 bets to me on the flop as that certainly looks like they both may have a bigger PP. what could they possibly have hit on that board to make them both cap the flop? A6s? 45s? unlikely. and if UTG is passive post-flop he may not even cap 99-JJ on the flop if worried about QQ-AA

[Innocentius]

If you have read button as passive, I think you can lay it down to the 3-bet and cap on the flop, but on the other hand, I tend to be a bit on the weak side in these situations, and the pot is really big... Its just hard for me to see a passive player playing any hands other than AA-TT the way the button did here.

[aK13]

Raising the flop = spew.

I call the first flop bet, and fold for 2 more back.

Given the way you played it, you *might* be able to peel for the turn, seeing as how there seem to be some huge implied odds.

[Innocentius]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop = spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, the flop raise is too agressive. Anyway, playing it as the OP did, I still think I fold when it comes back two more. The implied odds should be good, but I dont think they are enough here.

[@bsolute_luck]

and everyone is okay with the 1st cold call to UTG's preflop raise 3rd in?

really, depending on your read of UTG, this is a reraise or fold situation before the flop. there aren't enough people in this hand to make cold calling the best play.

after it is capped, i'd fold the first bet on the flop. you have a LA-P leading the flop after capping, and a LP-P behind you who 3-bet preflop after 2 cold callers- the P seems to stand out that someone has a higher pair than 88 and you really don't want to get into the situation that you found yourself paying a lot to see the turn.

[jaxUp]

This is a hand where I want to isolate or stay out. As third in, I would elect to fold preflop without much hesitation.

[Dave G.]

I'd just call the flop bet and see how it goes. You're getting enough odds to spike your set on the turn so the first call is pretty easy. If the action behind you isn't too scary, you might raise a safe turn, but I'm not sure I like it with a passive UTG betting into me.

When it comes back two to you on the flop, you have to believe that you're behind. You need 22.5:1 to call for your set on the turn, less if you consider implied odds. However, getting only 13:1, this is a pretty easy fold.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising the flop = spew.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/confused.gif The real spew is coldcalling preflop.

Raising the flop is worse than calling, but not by a huge amount. You can't tell the difference between overcards and an overpair based on the action leading up to hero's flop decision (button is LPP, but how many hands went into those stats and how P is the P?). The pot is too big for Hero to protect anywhere if he is against overcards. (The smallest pot on the turn is 10 BB, and even if UTG bets and hero raises, villain is getting 13:2 to call with two overcards, if that's what he has).

A flop value/informaion raise is worth while because UTG is so aggressive (60/20) and a passive button usually won't 3-bet AK/AQ. However, if Hero limps, a passive button might raise AK/AQ, and UTG will 3-bet a wide range of hands (I know it says "passive", but the 1.3 aggression number for a 60 VPIP is pretty aggressive).

You can fold this to the flop cap (or preflop).

Peeling to see the turn is a little thin because there are only 2 other players in the pot, and players tend to shut down quite a bit when the bigger bets roll around.

[imported_The Vibesman]

I think if you are going to play at all you need to reraise preflop. You don't want this hand in a multiway pot, you want to get heads up if at all possible.

I may have folded when it came back two on the flop, especially after UTG capped preflop. UTG seems to be screaming, "I have a high pocket pair!"

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
/images/graemlins/confused.gif The real spew is coldcalling preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

[Watain]

This is really tricky hand IMHO.

Both button and UTG seems like they have either a pocket pair or something like a-k, k-q. But the two later would´t really be played like this.

If they have an lower pocket pair than you, they properbly have made a set on the turn, expect for 44 which likely could have been played the same way.

But i would´nt have folded either on the turn. The pot is to simply to big. But if button had reraised i would have thrown it.

edit: Great answer Aaron. Like the "information raise" thing.

[DeathDonkey]

[ QUOTE ]
Reads are UTG: LA-P (something like 60/18/1.3)

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding preflop is ridiculous. I'd 3 bet every time.

-DeathDonkey

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Reads are UTG: LA-P (something like 60/18/1.3)

[/ QUOTE ]

Folding preflop is ridiculous. I'd 3 bet every time.

-DeathDonkey

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoops. You're 100% right. Shame on me for posting at 7AM with only half the brain working and mentioning that pathetic parenthetical preflop proposal.

[TomBrooks]

I fold to the flop cap.

PS: I'd reraise preflop since UTG is LAG and try to get this 2 or 3 way.