So what's a bad downturn?

[onthebutton]

I just want to ask the opinion of what a bad cold streak is before I start to worry. I had a -50BB night tonight at the end of a rough week. Opinions?

[WarLordAG]

Shrug it off and chalk it up to variance. I just finished a -170BB downswing. Didn't even phase me. My first downswing was devastating, but I've since learned to deal with it.

It's not to say that it isn't frustrating, because it is. Comes with the territory.

[aK13]

-200 is not uncommon.

[SoftcoreRevolt]

100 BB over 1,000 hands. 50 BB is a bad hour for some.

[aK13]

[ QUOTE ]
100 BB over 1,000 hands. 50 BB is a bad hour for some.

[/ QUOTE ]

100 is a bad hour/couple hundred hands for me.

[pryor15]

i remember when 50BB was a bad cold spell...ah, the ignorance of youth.

don't worry about it. [censored] happens. don't be results oriented. blah blah blah. if you think you might be tilting, post some hands.

one of these sessions you'll flop a raggedy straight when someone slowplays AA and forget all about your downswing as you cap the river.

[onthebutton]

OK...here are a couple that stick out from tonight.

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: (5.50 BB) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
SB has 6d Td (straight, queen high).
Hero has Kh Kc (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: SB wins 7.50 BB. </font>


Any advice? Here's another:

Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP1 posts a blind of $0.10.
UTG calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 (poster) calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 folds, SB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, UTG calls.

River: (13.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
UTG has 8s Jc (full house, eights full of tens).
Hero has As Ah (two pair, aces and tens).
SB has 5c Qc (two pair, queens and tens).
Outcome: UTG wins 13.50 BB. </font>

Been happening over and over.


Paradise Poker 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
Button calls, SB completes, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

Results in white below: <font color="#FFFFFF">
Hero has Kh Kd (two pair, kings and twos).
Button has Jd Th (two pair, jacks and twos).
SB has 8c 2c (full house, twos full of eights).
Outcome: SB wins 10.50 BB. </font>

[Bodhi]

I had a -60BB downswing tonight at the end of a good run. This is normal, don't worry about it. If you sometimes feel anger at the bad beats, that's normal too. Realize that your short term results (yes, even when you win), are largely a result of luck. Even the fishies have their winning nights.

[Bodhi]

Why did you slowplay the flop in the third hand?

[onthebutton]

Good question. I don't know what I was thinking, honestly.

Edit: The only thing I can think of is that I smoothcalled, hoping to keep the guy behind me in, and to get the bettor to bet the turn, so I could raise.

[pryor15]

here goes...

1. yeah, that sucks, but SB made 2 mistakes before picking up the flush draw. nothing else you could have done. i call that river bet as he could have something like Q9 (although others may fold), but that's the only thing really.

2. when he leads into my raises twice, i'm thinking there's a good chance he's got the 8 and try to get out cheaply, esp w/ SB cc so often (i.e. if UTG doesn't have the 8, SB can't be CC with much else)

3. raise the flop. there's no reason to believe you aren't ahead here (unless you've got a read on the guy) and you might just convince him to give up on his 2nd pair no kicker (but probably not)...actually, with the button limp and a SB limp, i raise with quite a bit here pre-flop as that's generally a sign of weakness. he didn't 3-bet you, so you can't assume you're in too much trouble. what happened on the river?

[onthebutton]

[ QUOTE ]

3. raise the flop. there's no reason to believe you aren't ahead here (unless you've got a read on the guy) and you might just convince him to give up on his 2nd pair no kicker (but probably not)...actually, with the button limp and a SB limp, i raise with quite a bit here pre-flop as that's generally a sign of weakness. he didn't 3-bet you, so you can't assume you're in too much trouble. what happened on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

The other two were all-in. Thanks for the advice.

[bottomset]

consolation: its only 10bucks .. my bad hands cost about 4times as much

[pryor15]

[ QUOTE ]
The other two were all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

makes sense. it's always amazing what people will go all-in with in a limit cash game.

[deception5]

I actually don't mind the slowplay in the third hand. Board is rainbow and reasonably uncoordinated. Pot is small and you don't mind terribly if people catch something as you are likely way ahead (and no flush draw is available).

As far as these 3 hands, I highly doubt aces and kings are your biggest leaks. If you called down everytime with these 2 hands you could still easily be a winning player. I know I was leaking with offsuit connectors QTo/JTo-78o. If you've been winning, shake it off, you'll occasionally have a 100+BB downswing that will make you question everything you know about poker. If you're just starting and losing money, post some non-premium hands where you lost a lot of money and did a lot of calling or played too aggressively.

These 3 hands are clearly just variance. Either way keep reading the forums and posting hands, nothing like a downswing to force you to evaluate your game and improve.

[onthebutton]

Thanks for the advice, I'll post more in the future if it continues. What's crazy is that my biggest loser last night was KK. Beaten 4 out of 4 times, every time without seeing an A hit the board. 3 out of 4 were pretty good size pots that I was jamming at least until the turn.

[deception5]

It would be one thing if you kept jamming after an ace flopped, but yeah this is most likely just variance.

[grjr]

Ah, that is bad luck. Grandfather say it not rain everyday.

[popeye18]

I had a 270 bb downswing once. I decided that i must suck even though i felt like i was playing well. I kept with it though and 2 days later i was up 350bb. Playing poker makes me feel bipolar.

[TomBrooks]

50 BB is not a big deal if you got sucked out on a lot. If you were playing bad though, or aren't sure that your play was sound, it might be wise to step back and evaluate. Review hands and look for leaks or mistakes.