AdamL
07-08-2005, 02:58 AM
I know that maniacs are the most profitable players to play against, but I get the impression they also require fine handling to realize that profit.
I'll be honest -- I'm a recreational player so I'm not dealing with massive sample sizes or anything, but I've never had a profitable run-in with a maniac. I've always lost HUGE playing against them. Could be variance, but I think I'm playing poorly as well.
So, I've decided to try and get a little better in my game against the maniac or otherwise very loose, very aggressive player.
Here is one hand I'd like feedback on. I'll detail my thoughts:
The preflop is pretty standard, but I'll take this chance to give my reads:
UTG+1 is the maniac. He'll raise with any pair on the flop and keep hammering, and he plays about 70% of his hands. His preflop raising standards are about 25% of his hands.
MP2 is playing about every other hand and doesn't adjust for position or against preflop raises. He'll bet at paired boards against two opponents (KK7) but gives up on the river. So he's not uber-passive post flop.
Blinds are both typical loose and passive players. Chase down if paired on the flop and fold to the river without improving (or raising when they do) is their standard play, and they try it with about 40% of their hands.
It's a GREAT table. :-)
Flop: I bet knowing UTG+1 is capable of raising with any pair. Firstly, because the other players realize this too, and are calling with any pair, so this is a value bet against any 4 or 6. I'm also hoping to narrow the field by getting stuff like suited aces out of the hand. (lone overcards.)
3-bet when it gets back to me? I didn't, because I'm just not comfortable proceeding if the maniac caps. I have no idea if I'm behind when that happens, as his aggression is largely not self-controlled on the flop.
Turn: I'm already getting lost. I thought about check-raising, but thought I'd rather overcall BB on the river (he could have any pair, as could the maniac) than potentially raise a better hand. Firstly, this way I let the maniac bet my hand for me and can make an easy fold if passive fishy pops it. But also, maniacs get good hands too, and I'm trying to maximize my profit when they have little pairs and minimize my loss when the maniac has top pair or better.
River: Not much to say. Calling because I'm good way more than 1 in 12.
Ugh. I really don't like it. I don't play this badly against anyone except maniacs postflop.
Someone throw me a life raft! (kindly?) /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.
Flop: (10 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.
Turn: (8 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.
River: (11 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 13 BB
edit: ps - any reading material on playing overly aggressive players post-flop with non top pair type hands would be helpful too.
I'll be honest -- I'm a recreational player so I'm not dealing with massive sample sizes or anything, but I've never had a profitable run-in with a maniac. I've always lost HUGE playing against them. Could be variance, but I think I'm playing poorly as well.
So, I've decided to try and get a little better in my game against the maniac or otherwise very loose, very aggressive player.
Here is one hand I'd like feedback on. I'll detail my thoughts:
The preflop is pretty standard, but I'll take this chance to give my reads:
UTG+1 is the maniac. He'll raise with any pair on the flop and keep hammering, and he plays about 70% of his hands. His preflop raising standards are about 25% of his hands.
MP2 is playing about every other hand and doesn't adjust for position or against preflop raises. He'll bet at paired boards against two opponents (KK7) but gives up on the river. So he's not uber-passive post flop.
Blinds are both typical loose and passive players. Chase down if paired on the flop and fold to the river without improving (or raising when they do) is their standard play, and they try it with about 40% of their hands.
It's a GREAT table. :-)
Flop: I bet knowing UTG+1 is capable of raising with any pair. Firstly, because the other players realize this too, and are calling with any pair, so this is a value bet against any 4 or 6. I'm also hoping to narrow the field by getting stuff like suited aces out of the hand. (lone overcards.)
3-bet when it gets back to me? I didn't, because I'm just not comfortable proceeding if the maniac caps. I have no idea if I'm behind when that happens, as his aggression is largely not self-controlled on the flop.
Turn: I'm already getting lost. I thought about check-raising, but thought I'd rather overcall BB on the river (he could have any pair, as could the maniac) than potentially raise a better hand. Firstly, this way I let the maniac bet my hand for me and can make an easy fold if passive fishy pops it. But also, maniacs get good hands too, and I'm trying to maximize my profit when they have little pairs and minimize my loss when the maniac has top pair or better.
River: Not much to say. Calling because I'm good way more than 1 in 12.
Ugh. I really don't like it. I don't play this badly against anyone except maniacs postflop.
Someone throw me a life raft! (kindly?) /images/graemlins/smile.gif
Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.
Flop: (10 SB) Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.
Turn: (8 BB) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.
River: (11 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG+1 bets</font>, BB folds, Hero calls.
Final Pot: 13 BB
edit: ps - any reading material on playing overly aggressive players post-flop with non top pair type hands would be helpful too.