A couple hands - comments appreciated.

[manku]

Home game, $5 ante, PL, stacks range from $400-1500. I have $400ish. Game is on aggressive side, but very loose. A couple truly awful fish. Most games hilo variations.

Hand #1. PL Omaha8 (5 Card, not 4)

I'm dealt A-3-4-7-K, with suited ace. I limp in late position for $10 along with all others (9 players).

Flop: 3-4-9, give me nut flush draw and bottom two pair. Also crappy low draw.

BB (we don't play blinds, so I'm just assume position), bets pot, about $100. BB solid, but overly aggressive player. UTG raises pot ($300). UTG is tight, solid player. Since I have flush draw, I put him on wrapparound straight (A-2-5) and either flush draw or two pair/set.

I fold.
BB calls.

Turn: Q, completing my flush. River: 9, pairing board, but no one had a full house. UTG wins with 4th nut flush. He did indeed have A-2-5 as well. BB had A2.

Do I need to gamble here?

Hand #2: Same game.

I have A-A-3-4-7, with both aces suited. I raise preflop, but unfortunately no one folds. Nine callers.

Flop: 6-8-K, rainbow but with one of each of my flush draws. I check, very aggressive player bets pot. One caller. I fold. Mistake?

Of course it came runner runner flush, and even though the low came in, my A3 was good. I would've scooped a huge pot.

Hand #3: Crazy Pineapple (hilo eight ob)

Limp in with A-7-9, suited ace. Family pot, again.

Flop: 6-8-9, rainbow.

I toss ace.

BB bets pot, UTG calls. To me. I fold. I figure its too easy for me to be drawing dead.

Both players had two pair. Of course, the straight came in.

Considering the nature of this game, where draws and second/third nut hands are routinely bet and called, am I playing this too tightly? My standard deviation is much lower, however I feel like I may be giving up some good opportunities.

Thanks

Manku

[Matt Flynn]

You are not playing too tight. Keep making those folds and you'll get rich. No amount of tight play can overcome losing your stack to the nuts in a game of the nuts. Don't worry about having to gamble a little to keep getting called. Sounds like they'll bet it for you. Also, you can pot it with your big draws and then just lay down if they don't hit. Plenty of room to appear aggressive.

Hand #1. Even in an ultraloose game, you want to be drawing to both ends and drawing to the nuts at least one way.

Hand #2. You are drawing to second nut low with only 4 outs to a vulnerable second nut high. Not good enough, especially in 5-card.

Hand #3. This one's closer, but still fold. If a five comes you could end up getting potted twice to see A2 and T7 or repotted and fold the best hand. Even if a T comes you can get beaten by J7 because your opponents could have anything and they will stay with an open-ended straight draw.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I pretty much agree with Matt.

When everybody is taking the flop, the nuts will be out there very often. As such, you need to stick to hands that can most easily make the nuts, and postlfop you absolutely have to stick to nuts made hands and/or nut draws. If you are very good at reading the opponents, then you can sometimes play lesser hands postflop, but you will do so at high variance and small profit.

Now, if only 2 or 3 of you take the flop, everything is different. Even in 5-card Omaha8, the nuts won't be out anywhere near as often (except A2, which will almost always be there if it's the nut low), and you can't fold second-string hands every time. However, it sounds like this won't be an issue in your game for a while, at least.

If I'm every anywhere nearby, I'd love to play. ;-)

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[manku]

I agree with the drawing only with nut hands, however the first hand I posted was a nut-flush draw, which is why I posted it.

Still not sure about the first one. The other two bugged me just because my hands came in. /forums/images/icons/frown.gif

If you're ever in Southern California.

Manku

[limon]

i would like an invite if possible. i can reciprocate by getting you an invite to a comparable nl game in L.A.

one thing though: is the game a single $5 ante or all players anteing $5? if the pot is starting at $45 one would want to buy in for at least 5k which is more than i'll play for in a game where i dont know anyone. drop me an e-mail.

limon . radio879@hotmail.com

[manku]

Unfortunately, we already have more than enough players...in fact, most sessions are overbooked.

If, however, we ever need an extra, I'll let you know.

FYI, it's a single $5 ante.

Manku

[Matt Flynn]

manku,

As for the 33/44, with a lowboat in 9-way O/8 5-card PL the only real betting to be done if you hit is figuring the over/under on how many other full houses will have you beat. I choose 2.

The nut flush draw is more interesting. Those few outs to the nut high (against redraws for low and better highs) could be worth it if a huge amount of money will go in on the turn and/or river. With your stack size it's not possible. If you had $1,500 and several players with big stacks who would call with low draws and lesser flushes, you'd be getting the odds assuming you could be sure there would be no raise behind you on the flop. I'd have to close the action and be pretty sure of a minimum 10x return on my flop call to call for value with just the nut flush draw and a 2-low on board in the situation you describe.

Matt