Top set, but what now?

[gh9801]

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, BB folds

Villain is Loose/passive, 30/5/1.2
Turn action and river plan?

[JoshuaD]

As long as SB keeps betting, you're not going to be able to protect your hand. Given that, I like your wait until the turn raise.

I like just calling the turn 3-betagainst this passive opponent. He's most likely got a straight, set, or two pair. In all three cases it's best to wait and watch the river pair up, and then get him to put in more bets than he should there.

If the river doesn't fill you up, I'll call a bet, bet if checked to, and pay off a check-raise.

[blackize]

Is he the kind of loose passive to go nuts with two pair? If not, then you have to guess he has the straight. So if hes the type to go nuts with two pair I cap the whole way. If not I cap the turn and probably just call the river.

[ecooke]

You have huge equity against a draw heavy flop - there is no reason to slowplay.
Given that you did not raise the flop you got your wish in lots of turn action and a very strong redraw to top full house. Cap the Turn.

[pauliewalnuts]

I'd cap and call if he leads a non-pairing river card. I'd be tempted to raise a safe card, such as a non heart 2 or 4, but wouldnt unless I had a great read. His numbers suggest he is capable of pumping a nice draw such as Kh10h. Also he could have a smaller set. I just cant give him credit for the straight yet

[mikeyvegas]

I cap the turn and if he bets into me on the river I just call. If checked to on the river I bet and pay off a check-raise.

[gh9801]

Thanks for the responses, so the consensus seems to be cap turn and call any river unimproved... That line seems very reasonable, unfortunately I didn't cap the turn in the actual hand

Results:
I called turn, River was a complete blank, he bet I called and he showed top two

While a straight seems likely the more I think about it the more he plays it like two pair or a worse set - so should I be raising the river more often than not and calling a threebet?

[toss]

We need to raise for value. Theres no reason we should call with top set on the flop.

[blackize]

I think youre right that he played it like a set or 2 pair. He leads out into a preflop raiser. With a straight most opponents will wait for you to catch something or go for a check raise.

[gh9801]

Generally, do I win more bets if I wait for the turn to raise or if I try to get a lot of bets on the flop?

[toss]

Depends really. In this case I say raising the flop is good since BB will often call along with a one card straight draw or timid two pair. Plus SB may decide to 3-bet you which I would most likely call and raise the turn.

[blackize]

However, a lot of the time a player like this goes really passive if you raise them on the flop and they dont have the nuts. So I think that waiting for the turn generally gets more money in the pot.

[gh9801]

That was my thinking, that they would check to me if I raised the flop. My call here could easily be AK/AQ with backdoors or whatever, so I was pretty confident he was betting out again on the turn.

However, when is it best to pump the flop?

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
Is he the kind of loose passive to go nuts with two pair? If not, then you have to guess he has the straight. So if hes the type to go nuts with two pair I cap the whole way. If not I cap the turn and probably just call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think you can know that without very extensive reads. You should have a line for when you don't know which he is.

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
We need to raise for value. Theres no reason we should call with top set on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. It looks like SB is going to continue betting, and that BB will continue calling. If that's the case, we gain another BB by raising the turn. I'm usually very aggressive with sets, but this seems like a very good time to wait until the turn.