A couple 5/10 TT hands [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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HolyBejeesus

07-07-2005, 08:26 PM

I recently made the jump to PP $5-$10 full. I have been doing all right, but with a lot of variance. I am not fully convinced that I am a long-term winner in the game. As the preflop raiser, I seem to get CR'ed on the turn a lot (a lot). Both of these hands are kind of iffy.

Hand #1:
No read on BB. It looks like he has a K, but this is a good board for a bluff turn CR. Good fold?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 calls, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (8.40 SB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif (4 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, BB calls.

Turn: (5.20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Hand #2:
UTG+1 is 43/7/1.5 and somewhat aggressive. Looking back I think I may have folded the best hand. Is this a call-down?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 4 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG+1 calls, SB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

Derek132260

07-07-2005, 08:44 PM

This just all depends on what kind of players these are. Hand no. 1 is an example of how I might play something like 77 against a thinking player who knows that I'm a thinking player. That type of opponent would know that KQs is one of a very few hands that I'd limp with, and that c/c c/r is a very likely line for KQ with a flop like this.

Hand no. 2 is different. I could see a 43/7/1.5 raising his wheel draw and/or flush draw and/or small pp here on the turn, especially if he's tagged you as "conservative" -- as players like that think of a more 2+2 style of play. But at the same time, he could easily have a small set, two small-pair or even a Q that he's waited to show aggression on. And because he's a donky LAG, he could also have absolutely nothing.

Nonetheless...both hands are close. I'd probably fold hand 1 absent any reads and call down a LAG on hand 2.

ceyoung

07-07-2005, 09:26 PM

hand 1 you should check the turn and call the river. if he checks to you on the river you should bet.

lerxst337

07-07-2005, 09:34 PM

The first hand, I just don't know that I MYSELF could lay that down. Shy of playing AK weak, or KQ, I just don't see that many hands that have you beat. Both hands smack of aggression against wheelhouse raises--asking you the question if the flop indeed hit you. I actually think the second hand is a much better fold than hand 1, only because the pair of queens, or a wheel, or a weird 2 pair even (he is seeing 43%, after all) is certainly more possible than the set of K's.

In hand one, if you just call the turn raise and the river, you are calling 2BB to win about 9. You at LEAST win this one out of 4 times.

Hand 2, you call twice to win 8..., I think this is a safe fold.
Any disagreements?

Azhrarn

07-07-2005, 09:53 PM

Hand 1: Without a read, I think you need to call down. I have seen a whole lot of bluff checkraises on the turn on paired boards in the PP 5/10 game. Sometimes it'll be a lower two pair, sometimes it'll be two clubs, sometimes it will be absolutely nothing. He will have a king or better the majority of the time, but it'll be a bluff often enough to make a call-down profitable.

Hand 2: In a vacuum, I let this one go. You showed a fair amount of strength by raising from the big blind, and yet he still pops you on the expensive street. Now, if I've been laying down a lot of hands recently after raising pre-flop, or if I've noticed the villain loves to bluff or semibluff, I will call down. But given the info you provided, I would fold.

HolyBejeesus

07-07-2005, 09:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 you should check the turn and call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this? I don't want to give a free card to a hand like AJ, although avoiding the CR is nice.

HolyBejeesus

07-07-2005, 10:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
The first hand, I just don't know that I MYSELF could lay that down. Shy of playing AK weak, or KQ, I just don't see that many hands that have you beat. Both hands smack of aggression against wheelhouse raises--asking you the question if the flop indeed hit you. I actually think the second hand is a much better fold than hand 1, only because the pair of queens, or a wheel, or a weird 2 pair even (he is seeing 43%, after all) is certainly more possible than the set of K's.

In hand one, if you just call the turn raise and the river, you are calling 2BB to win about 9. You at LEAST win this one out of 4 times.

Hand 2, you call twice to win 8..., I think this is a safe fold.
Any disagreements?

[/ QUOTE ]

In hand 1, I wouldn't be surprised to see a small pair here. But will we see it 1 in 4 times? Villain's hand range also includes any K, 66,88,JJ,QQ and AA. People do some strange things with AA at 5/10.

In hand 2, there are a ton of hands that beat me, but villain is somewhat aggressive (1.5 is a pretty high AF for someone with 43 VP$IP). I still lean toward folding here.

ceyoung

07-07-2005, 10:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 you should check the turn and call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this? I don't want to give a free card to a hand like AJ, although avoiding the CR is nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

classic way ahead or way behind. if he has an 8 or a 6 you dont give him a chance to check raise. if he has a K and you are dead anyways. if you check the turn you can get him to bet the river with junk and pick up a bet.

bobbyi

07-07-2005, 11:03 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 1 you should check the turn and call the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you explain this? I don't want to give a free card to a hand like AJ, although avoiding the CR is nice.

[/ QUOTE ]

classic way ahead or way behind.

[/ QUOTE ]
I really hate the way people keep using this in spots where you can easily be neither way ahead nor way behind. Did you even read the post you were replying to? The reason to bet is that we are often against overcards that have six outs.

ceyoung

07-07-2005, 11:16 PM

if the flop is JJx, QQx, KKx, AAx and i have an underpair against 4 oppenents on the flop i'm checking this turn 100% of the time.