Fold or Call?

[sean c]

Live 10/20 full kill game this is a kill pot. Typical loose game Button is TAG.

Sean c is BB with 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Pre flop six loosies limp button raises SB folds. Is this a call or easy fold here? If all limpers call the raise I am getting 10:1 on my call. On the other hand my relative position to the PFR sucks and 57s isn't a very good hand. I called.

Flop 10 5 4r.(16.25SB) Checks to button whoe bets. Sean c?

[Kyle]

Easy call preflop. I would call here with any two suited cards getting 10:1. The flop I would most likely check raise unless the PFR wont bet overcards into a large field like this one.

[axioma]

preflop call is good.


flop is raise or fold.

[shant]

I don't think the flop is so easily raise or fold. One thing that would help is to know is whether or not one of our suit is on the flop. Another is to know if the table is passive or aggressive. With 6 preflop limps, I'm thinking it's loose passive. Is calling here with at least 5 outs such a bad move?

[Entity]

Preflop is a super easy call.

Were any of the flop cards spades? I'd probably tend to call here. I would never fold and I might checkraise but I'm ok with just being happily passive. I don't think a c/r does a whole lot in a game where there are 6 callers and a 16SB pot.

Rob

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand my relative position to the PFR sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, being in the BB is probably the best place to be when the button is the preflop raiser.

[PatJ]

I'd love to CR and close out the field, but Like entity said the pot is so big i wonder how effective that'd be. Are the players in this pot passive enough to check top pair to the pre flop raiser? Would the pf raiser bet overcards into this many people? Except for the gutter straight, there's no draws out there.

It might be time to call, see how many others come along and hope for a safe card on the turn.

[thirddan]

why is acting directly after the preflop raiser good?


seems like being in the CO would be better, no?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
why is acting directly after the preflop raiser good?


[/ QUOTE ]

If you flop a sweet draw, you can bet, possibly build a pot, and maybe even get to three-bet.

If you flop top pair and/or a gutshot, you have the option to checkraise the button in an attempt to get it heads-up which may allow you take it down with a turn bet.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
why is acting directly after the preflop raiser good?


seems like being in the CO would be better, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason being is that if you flop a vulnerable hand that might be ahead of the button you can checkraise and face the field with two bets. For a hand like this I think being either to the left or right of the raiser are both good for different reasons.

[BWebb]

[ QUOTE ]
why is acting directly after the preflop raiser good?


seems like being in the CO would be better, no?

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends. If you are going to flop a monster, it would be nice to be in the CO so you could CR the field. However, if you flop a hand you want to protect, being in the BB is good because of the chance you could CR the button's bet and close out the field. Knowing which one you are going to flop is when you are truly a great player. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[oreogod]

Man, what is it with all the 75s hands lately?

Preflop looks good. On the flop it is actually a pretty close descion on all counts, leaning more to either a fold or call. IF CR this, I seriously doubt many, if any will fold. Say u call, check the turn if u are confident the Button will bet, and the turn is not a horrible card (which there are a decent amount of)...then u can CR (depends though).

I like a flop call. IF the pot was smaller I think a flop CR has a better chance of success.

Again, I really like a flop checkraise in most of these situations...but how likely is it to succeed here?

[Entity]

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop it is actually a pretty close descion on all counts, leaning more to either a fold or call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a fold would be close at all. I'm actually reasonably certain that folding here is terrible, as your overlay is huge even considering the times you get checkraised.

Rob

[oreogod]

I think I was stating that I like folding/calling better than calling/raising. While I would not fold here, and even if check/raising is a good play (which I would usually advocate here), does the CR really do anything for us? As far as the chance of it improving our chances?

The only reason Im not so sure a CR would work...Im guessing 1 person folds, and if u get three bet, Im pretty sure there will be a fair number tied to this pot to the end (pussy thoughts? Dunno, but I thought Id put it out there as I am curious)

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why is acting directly after the preflop raiser good?


[/ QUOTE ]

If you flop a sweet draw, you can bet, possibly build a pot, and maybe even get to three-bet.

If you flop top pair and/or a gutshot, you have the option to checkraise the button in an attempt to get it heads-up which may allow you take it down with a turn bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

chesspain theorizes g00t

[Paxosmotic]

I think it's a call. If one is of your suit and another spade falls on the turn, then check-raise to clear out some dead weight.

[oreogod]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it's a call. If one is of your suit and another spade falls on the turn, then check-raise to clear out some dead weight.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgot to mention the BD flush possibility. IF its there, then I probably check raise, I call if there is no BD flush.