TPTK facing a min-raise

[schwza]

33. don't remember reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t225)
Button (t870)
SB (t1710)
BB (t878)
Hero (t1015)
UTG+1 (t245)
MP1 (t1267)
MP2 (t540)
MP3 (t1250)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls t100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t245) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t160</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t320</font>, Hero ??

[mlagoo]

I think you're ahead. I think the line is call, then C/R push the turn.

It looks like he has you on a CB and wants to show strength.

Oh and if it checks through on the turn push the river. Hope he hasn't found a real hand by then.


I have a lot of trouble giving people credit for sets heads-up. Maybe that's a leak.

[MastiffPaul]

I find people show down a lower kicker or even a completely foolish hand at least as often as they will show down a set (at the 22s, anyway). I too find it difficult to put someone on a set heads-up (esp. given this action), and I don't think it's a leak at all.

[citanul]

hm, i probably don't raise preflop here... i don't really have any commentary on your hand at all, i just wanted to say something to you:

i think it's very good that you're posting more post flop decision hands. various people have attempted at times to make the forum more about post flop play, and given up in turn. it's good to have you around. also, because you play looser and more aggressively early than most of the other players on the forum, and/or their advice, but are most likely a winner (i'm assuming here).

just wanted to say thanks i guess.

citanul

[MrOnizuka]

This looks like a push or fold situation to me. Button has put half his stack into the pot already, and if you call, his remaining chips will be like 2/5 the pot. Just betting the pot on the flop makes the decision a lot easier, but you're also basically comitting yourself to go broke with TPTK. So reads are like cool.

The way the action went down, I'd just push right here. I'd say you have him beat or tied around 60% of the time, he's got an overpair or a set like 35% of the time, and 5% of the time hes just dicking around. With all the chips already in the middle, a push seems good to me.

A fatty checkraise attempt might have another way to play this particular flop, as it doesn't seem like you fear the free card too much.

Pots like this are why I like UB's newish format a lot better, lot more options with 1500 starting.

[gumpzilla]

Without some reason to do otherwise, against a single opponent early in an SNG with no obvious flush draws and only improbable straight draws out there I'm pretty willing to get my chips in the middle here. So the question is how to get KQ,QJ or JJ, which I think are probably the most likely holdings that you're up against, to come with you, wand to a lesser extent losing the least to the odd AA-KK. I think the line of calling this and then check-calling the turn is fine. If the turn gets checked behind, I make a pretty small river value bet. Otherwise I'm calling down.

EDIT: Also, as citanul alluded to, I wouldn't let it get you down that the STT forum isn't agreeing with your postflop play that much. While this is a great place to go for bubble advice, postflop discussions are kind of limited and so I don't think there's much serious postflop wizardry here.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
This looks like a push or fold situation to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a Q42 board and your push will make him fold JJ.

Call and get it in on the turn.

[MrOnizuka]

[ QUOTE ]
Call and get it in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean to call and push the turn or call and expect him to push a turn? I'd think that something that can't beat a Q would check behind and fold to the ensuing river push anyways. Plus there's the few times he's got like JJ or 99 and hits the miracle card when he wouldve folded the flop push.

Actually on second thought, I might like this line better if you've decided to get it all in. Since there's aparrently no card that could dissuade you from pushing it in, might as well give a chance for the other guy to hang himself.

[adanthar]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call and get it in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean to call and push the turn or call and expect him to push a turn? I'd think that something that can't beat a Q would check behind and fold to the ensuing river push anyways.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's a good thing that never happens at Party /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Unarmed]

I call and check/call the turn, and I don't think it's close.
Pushing the turn just folds everything that we beat and makes it too easy for Villain to play the hand correctly.
Checking/calling the turn allows Villain to make a horrible mistake with a set.

I don't see why I want to take the lead back on this one give the dry board.

[schwza]

i decided to call and then check the turn, and decide c/r vs c/c after i saw how much he bet. and then came the worst card in the deck /images/graemlins/frown.gif now what?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

CO (t225)
Button (t870)
SB (t1710)
BB (t878)
Hero (t1015)
UTG+1 (t245)
MP1 (t1267)
MP2 (t540)
MP3 (t1250)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, Button calls t100, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Flop: (t245) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t160</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t320</font>, Hero calls t160.

Turn: (t885) K/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero ??


button has 450 left.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
hm, i probably don't raise preflop here

[/ QUOTE ]

that's some useful commentary right there. please tell me you don't fold?

[ QUOTE ]
also, because you play looser and more aggressively early than most of the other players on the forum

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm coming from MTT's, so the prospect of open-folding AJ in MP at any level makes me want to barf a little. seeing good players' results of finishes by place and seeing ~2-3% 10th makes me think i should probably screw down and get a little closer to the 2+2 cannon.

[ QUOTE ]
but are most likely a winner (i'm assuming here).


[/ QUOTE ]

i have been at mtt's and ssnl, but i am hardly blowing anyone away at stt's. ~200 in and an roi of 11% 2-tabling the 33's. but i feel like i'm learning a lot.

[ QUOTE ]
just wanted to say thanks i guess.


[/ QUOTE ]

your posts have been a large chunk of my stt education. thank you.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Checking/calling the turn allows Villain to make a horrible mistake with a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

what mistake would that be? do you think he's going to check it down? that seems, um, unlikely.

[gumpzilla]

Check/call his push. The K is a bluffer's dream. If you lead out you'll only get called if it hit him, but I think he'll be into you very often when checked to both with K and without, and you'll be getting pretty good odds at that point.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Checking/calling the turn allows Villain to make a horrible mistake with a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

what mistake would that be? do you think he's going to check it down? that seems, um, unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but he could very easily check the turn and fire a half pot bet on the river. He either has a hand that has you crushed or he was probing on the flop with his raise. Either way I do not want the lead back on this hand.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Checking/calling the turn allows Villain to make a horrible mistake with a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

what mistake would that be? do you think he's going to check it down? that seems, um, unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but he could very easily check the turn and fire a half pot bet on the river. He either has a hand that has you crushed or he was probing on the flop with his raise. Either way I do not want the lead back on this hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

villain has 450 in an 885 pot after he c/r's the flop.

[Unarmed]

So you save 7 chips. Every little bit counts. /images/graemlins/grin.gif
Anyway, I still don't like the idea of blowing off a weaker Q on the flop.

[DJ Sensei]

First of all, I think its very, very unlikely that you're beat here. AA or KK reraise preflop, 44 or 22 shouldnt call off 1/8 of their stack preflop.

Perhaps you should give that dastardly minraiser a taste of his own medicine and minraise him right back? It won't chase off KQ or QJ, which seem like the most likely hands you're up against. It might chase off JJ, but chances are you arent making too much more off of him anyhow after you call his raise. The villain might call or push back, but he's pot committed at this point so it doesnt matter all that much.

anybody else like this idea?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call his push. The K is a bluffer's dream. If you lead out you'll only get called if it hit him, but I think he'll be into you very often when checked to both with K and without, and you'll be getting pretty good odds at that point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm not folding ths hand, but I don't want to be the one putting chips in the pot first either.

[J Chap]

[ QUOTE ]

I agree. I'm not folding ths hand, but I don't want to be the one putting chips in the pot first either.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good tactic to keep in mind. A beginner (read: Me) might be lead to believe that Hey, if I'm willing to end up with all of my chips into the pot, why not bet them right now on the turn. Terribly unprofitable thought, and I know it's rooted in my -EV hatred for getting sucked out with a like a Q8 or A4 two-pair right here.