Las Vegas or So. Cal. ?

[raptor]

Trying to decide on the two. Will be moving this Spring to one or the other. Not just concerned with game selection, but also things like cost of living, ( L.A. obviously higher), weather,(L.A. better), the advantage of L.A. being smoke free, things like that. Any comments from those who have lived and played poker in both places for a substantial period of time, would be appreciated.

[Dynasty]

The two largest rooms in Las Vegas (Bellagio and Mirage) are also smoke free. And, the weather here is fantastic except from about late May until early September when it gets over 100 degrees routinely.

[Randy_Refeld]

I have lived in both Vegas and LA and I like both of them. If you want to be at the casino 24/7 then you want to live in Vegas; you can't get away from a casino. If you want to live in the real world and just visit the casino to play poker than go to LA.

Randy

[mdlm]

If you want to be at the casino 24/7 then you want to live in Vegas; you can't get away from a casino. If you want to live in the real world and just visit the casino to play poker than go to LA.

I was just in Vegas and lived in Orange County (just south of LA) for 8 years.

The point that Randy makes is the key point. Las Vegas is a horrifying, sickening, disgusting city during the day and outside of the casino. That is why poker pros sleep until 1pm and then go straight to the casino. Unless you are sitting at the poker table LV is simply hellish. It looks like a ghost town. My guess is that most people will go insane.

LA, on the other hand, is a real city in a real state with beaches, mountains, state parks, Hollywood, basketball teams, etc.

[Clarkmeister]

"The point that Randy makes is the key point. Las Vegas is a horrifying, sickening, disgusting city during the day and outside of the casino. ..... Unless you are sitting at the poker table LV is simply hellish."

If your only experience off the strip is limited to heading to the Gamblers Book Club, then you have no basis for making that arguement. Its similar to making a judgement about LA if all you have seen is Compton. Once you have seen Summerlin, Green Valley, Red Rock and Mt. Charleston you can make a judgement about quality of life in Vegas.

[raptor]

Thanks; this is the kind of input I am looking for. I have been to Vegas many times for tournaments but have never made it out to L.A. Did not realize that Belagio and Mirage had gone smoke free, thanks for that info. Would have to agree that vegas is dead during the day, but I, like most full time players, am rarely up before noon. I do not have any "leaks", I play nothing but poker, so there is really nothing else about Vegas that I am really interested in, ( except the restuarants ) I would probably prefer LA, but am concerned with cost of living, how far have to drive daily to get to, lets say, Commerce, crime rate, that kind of stuff. Anyways, thanks for the input!

[Boris]

Read the bad beat stories on the mid limit forum. You will definitely want to move to Vegas. Great games, lower variance, lower cost of living.

[AmericanAirlines]

I can't say about L.A. or San Fran, since never been to either, but I did live in Vegas for 2 years.

As some folks suggest, in general Vegas "isn't a very good place to live". I have 2 vehicles broken into or stolen.

But like an "metropolitan" area, if you have the money to be in the nice sections it can be "great". My favorite example of that is Memphis. Most of it s*cks... but of course the rich sections with stone houses and golf courses are nice.

As for calling Summerlin "nice" well, I lived in the apt. complex across from Citicorp's HQ and right next to Canyon Gate and very near to "The Lakes" (both exclusive) when my car and motorbike were screwed with. The place I was in was gated. So my neighbors or the gaurds were probably involved right?

Make no bones about it LV has a high crime rate that they play down.

That having been said, if you don't mind driving, there's places to see and things to do, but the terrain out there is very spartan to say the least. And being Vegas, well it's very transient. Lots of folks come, find out they hate it and leave. A couple that sold real estate moved in next to me from Tampa and in 6 months they left. They'd heard the market was booming out there (1998) but decided they just didn't give a diddly, they wanted out.

Another thing to consider, it's biological crud farm. 60,80 million folks a year come through from everywhere. Bringing every virus and flu that there is. After being in that scene for a while, I can tell you... people come to Vegas, make a mess for a week and go home. One memorable situation was watching some guy bring his drink into the men's room at the Mirage, putting it on a cruddy urinal, not washing his hands and taking the dripping filthy glass back out to the table. Now ask what's in some of the clay chips that may be older than you are.

I won't even tell you 'bout the time I watched a chefm when I was working Sahara, that put his tools on a dirty bench in the locker room.

Anyways, any casino is a crud incubator, no matter where it is. But then so is the office building I work in. People are cruds in general. Just watch them close some time ;-)

So, never having done the West Coast, I'd subjectively think there's more diversions away from the casino, closer on the West Coast.

But, having seen the films of riots in LA and more recently, Oakland, ummm... seems to be some boiling discontent out there. And well, Compton, on the map is very near Commerce, and well "Crystal Park" I think it is, is right there. Compton, I believe, is home to "The Compton Crypts" or whatever gang. Adversaries to "The Bloods". That's what all those silly hand signs Rappers make in videos are about. "Gang Signs". I mean come on, SoCal is the source of the "Gangsta" baggy clothes look. or at least Hollywood is the point of distribution of that BS.

But then I definitely saw skin heads in Vegas. And one night some 17 year old punk thought he was going to give me a hard time on the street. Shocked the sh*t out of him when he went in one door of the Frontier, I went in another and caught him in the middle. The clown took his shirt off like he was going to "kick my ass" in the middle of the Frontier. Good thing for him I didn't want an "assaulting a minor" charge. When he got his shirt over his head I could've easily dropped him. What a clown. Security handled it. I told him to grow up a get a job to support his little girlfriend he was showing off for.

Suffice to say neither locations "casino districts" are country clubs. It's a shame poker can't be located in nice places. But this is as it is. Suck to have the trade off for pursing pro poker be crappy locations. But I suspect wealthy folks with power to affect zoning don't really want a casino in thier back yard. To bad poker clubs can't be more like country clubs. But gaming attracts everything from average folks to scammers to the wealthy. I guess risk taking and competive urges ar just human common denominators.

In any event, I'm curious, as you are, about the ease or difficulty of being a true "make your living at poker" pro in any of the big poker locations vrs. Las Vegas.

Two things that do stand out to me. 1) The CA card barns seem to have more tables than the big LV card rooms. 2) I wonder, since CA card rooms don't attract the tourism crowd, whether or not the density of pros is greater in CA.

Sincerely,
AA

[andyfox]

"the weather here is fantastic except from about late May until early September when it gets over 100 degrees routinely."

That's about 30% of the year. "Over 100 degrees routinely" is a euphemism for a suburb of hell. It's frigging hot in Las Vegas. We're told it's a dry heat. It's a hot heat.

When the Veteran's Administration wanted the spot with the best climate in the country in the 1920s, they picked the west side of Los Angeles. It still has the best climate in the world, including everywhere. The smog is forbidden to go west of La Cienega Blvd. by order of the city council.

[raptor]

Again I want to thank any and all responses on this subject!! I do not want this to turn into a bashing contest between the two cities, I just want to get as much input I can get from people who have " been there - done that". There is obviously a lot more to consider than just the "games". As far as AA's comment about the possibility of there being a higher density of pros in LA, I would have thought that the opposite would be the case. Since there are no table games, slots, or sports betting, it's either poker or nothing! I would think that there would be a lot more casual players than in normal casinos. Obviously, I could be completely wrong on this. Plus you have a lot of people, who, lets say, are in a higher tax bracket, that have a lot of disposable income! The gang problems, I have given some thought to, but without being there, I have no way of knowing how much I here about is true, how much is exagerrated, or how much is toned down? I have learned through experience not to believe much of what is said on the news, or in the paper. As for the bad beat stories, yes, I know all about the way the asians play hold-em out on the coast! There is a lot of different ways to look at the good and bad points of playing poker in both cities, that is why I started this thread, and appreciate all insight from other players!! Thanks again, and keep it coming!!

[snakehead]

bankroll has to be your biggest consideration. if you can afford to play at 15-30 and higher without ever stepping down, then la is the place to be. there are more games to choose from, and lots of opportunity to move up. but if you had to play lower than this, the rakes would eat you up.

if you can afford $1000-1500/mo for an apartment and don't mind driving 30 minutes to the casino, la is the place. if not, try vegas, or better yet, some other smaller poker location where there aren't as many pros.

[Clarkmeister]

There are a few critical questions you must answer before making a decision.

1. Do you, or do you plan to own a car?

2. How much a month do you plan on spending for living expenses?

3. How important is commute time for you?

4. Having the Ocean nearby is wonderful! IF you will actually ever go there. Are you actually going to take advantage of the non-poker things that LA has to offer?

5. Do you have a lot of friends and family to visit, or who will want to come and visit you?

[raptor]

Clarkmeister; (1) Yes, I have a vehicle. (2) Do not want to rent a dump, but do not want to spend more than needed. (3) Commute time is very important, would prefer not more than 1/2 hour or so one way. (4)The ocean itself is not that big a deal, but there are probably a lot of other things in LA that I would enjoy (5) No family, all by lonesome.

[Dynasty]

the heat in Las Vegas bothers me a lot less than the cold of Massacusetts did.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hmmm... Ok, my rationale on "more pros in LA" was based on the idea that there'd be lots of locals who play a lot.

Perhaps I should've said, "more regulars who might just be decent players having played a lot" rather than "pros".

Do recall that all my comments about LA are speculative. Haven't been there.

Commute time in Vegas is minimal as long as you don't drive straight down Las Vegas blvd. (You shouldn't have to either, plenty of cross streets named after the casinos on them.)

To be honest, I was glad to get out of Vegas, but might have felt different if my vehicles weren't getting nailed and lived somewhere really good, not just "OK". But there were definitely even worse spots, to be sure.

Cost of living is lower there than here. (Denver area). No doubt rents are 20% lower in LV.

I'd say, rent room in both places for a month. It's about a 300 mile drive between LA and LV.

One plus for LV. If you get down on your luck, going to dealer school and working the other side of the table isn't to hard to do. (Might be different now that it's Post 9/11 and economy isn't so good... but was an easy thing to do circa 1998-2000.) And you really can live on even a dealer's income in some of the not-so-new casinos.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Snakehead,
What sort of appartment do you get for you 1500 in LA?

For say $800 in LV a 2/2 was possible in say Summerlin, which isn't too bad of a place.

Just trying to see what the comparison point is.

Sincerely,
AA

[D.J.]

I've just been reading some of these posts and laughing my ass off at how you guys are talking about Compton, gangs, and crime. First of all, none of you have ever been to the CPT(short for compton) besides maybe driving through, and gangs are not a problem any more than anywhere else. From a person who grew up in the CPT when it was bad, just mind your own business and no one will bother you. I don't think you have to worry anyway, no one is gang banging outside the commerce casino. The people you have to watch out for are in both LA and LV and those are the broken down gambling degenerates w/o a care in the world and a penny to their name, those are the dangerous ones, not the gangs. Only "bad" area around a casino would be Hollywood Park, so if it makes you feel better just don't go there, and I don't think you'll be playing at Crystal park or Normandie anyway if you're a pro. Your main 3 places will be Commerce, Hawaiian Gardens, and the Hustler. LA is definitely a little more expensive than LV, but not much for a single guy who will have an apt. When I lived in LV, last year I stayed at the Paradise Bay Club apts. which were pretty nice, and located behind the Hard Rock Hotel on Paradise and Flamingo, I paid 850/month for a 2/2, and all the places around there were about the same, 1/1 was about 650 I think. There's a lot to do in both cities to keep you busy, and if there's no family involved you're fine either place, I prefer the LA weather though and sincerely believe one can make more $$$ playing in LA, but that's just me. Good Luck w/ wherever you go. I'll see you in either city at the tables.

-D.J.

[raptor]

Enthusiast; thank you, that is the kind of info I am looking for, from someone who lives out there. I can handle a 1/2 hour or so commute, not crazy about the 1000-1500 a month for rent. If I can get moved out before WSOP, I will go to LA for a couple of months afterwards, and then figure out which way to go. I pretty much only play HE, 20-40 and up, prefer pot limit as long as bankroll allows. Any further comments are appreciated.

[D.J.]

Raptor,
Playing 20-40 in LA, it's very possible to pull six figures in a year. Also, Pot limit goes every night at commerce either 10-10 or 10-20 blinds, you might be hard pressed to find a PL game in vegas outside of world series time. Also, I'm not saying you can't handle the game or anything, but you said 20-40 and up, so I'm assuming you spend a lot of time in the 30-60 area. The 30-60 at Bellagio can be summarized in one word, tough, there are many pros playing in those games and it's usually not very soft except for maybe on the weekends where you'll still have 2 or 3 fellow pros at the same table w/ you. I'm still leaning toward LA for you b/c the 20-40 to 40-80 range is pretty hot there and I'm thinking you'll be able to pick and choose your games better. Not that there aren't plenty of tough pros in LA playing these same games, but it's a little more spread out than LV I would say. Really I think your best bet is to try a month or so in both cities and decide for yourself, this way you'll be able to make a better decision, oh and by the way during the wsop vegas will be much better than usual so don't let that influence you too much, just like during the LAPC, LA, is much better than usual also. You might want to give it a shot in the summer months. Good Luck again.

-D.J.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi D.J.
OK, then here's some objective data from:

http://www.bestplaces.net

Unfortunately Vegas listed all crime rates as "0"... intersting how Vegas manages to keep it's crime rate hidden.

Here's comparison of my home town in Florida with Compton and national averages. Interesting that it looks to be about 2-3 times the national average. Funny how Oakland up north looked about the same demographically and has been having riots over the fricken Super Bowl.

I often wonder if anyone would care if the teams were named "Macdonald's" and "Burger King"... like the *franchises* they are rather than named after towns. God people are stupid when it comes to this.

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr>CATEGORIES
crimes per 100,000 pop.
Murder 57.7 3.2 3.9
Rape 32.0 15.9 32.8
Robbery 565.0 117.9 116.3
Assault 949.6 274.1 293.0
Burglary 1,225.2 924.3 761.4
Larcency 1,409.9 3,448.6 3,037.8
Auto theft 956.0 443.0 361.8
&gt;
RACE White 21.6% 94.2% 81.8%
Black 44.3% 4.0% 10.4%
Asian 5.4% 1.2% 3.6%
Amer. Indian 0.3% 0.1% 0.8%
Other 28.4% 0.5% 3.5%
Hispanic 53.9% 4.6% 11.0%</pre><hr>

You do the math.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Doh! sorry, screwed up with the tables when I cut and pasted.

Try again:

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr>CATEGORIES
crimes per 100,000 pop.
&gt;
Compton Jupiter Nat. Ave.
Murder 57.7 3.2 3.9
Rape 32.0 15.9 32.8
Robbery 565.0 117.9 116.3
Assault 949.6 274.1 293.0
Burglary 1,225.2 924.3 761.4
Larcency 1,409.9 3,448.6 3,037.8
Auto theft 956.0 443.0 361.8
&gt;
Compton Jupiter Nat. Ave.
RACE
White 21.6% 94.2% 81.8%
Black 44.3% 4.0% 10.4%
Asian 5.4% 1.2% 3.6%
Amer. Indian 0.3% 0.1% 0.8%
Other 28.4% 0.5% 3.5%
Hispanic 53.9% 4.6% 11.0%</pre><hr>


Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi D.j.
Even though I lived in Vegas, I don't recall to much of a change during WSOP time up Mirage way.

Do you really find more good games that time of year? Perhaps down Fremont way?

Sincerely,
AA

[bad beetz]

I'm no poker pro, but you can't possibly be touting the benefits of nevada's climate against Souther Cali, the best climate On the planet.

[bad beetz]

have you considered the Bay area? Lots of culture here, plus sh*tty poker players too! And fog? Oh, we've got fog.
We've also got these street car things I haven't figured out. It's neat!

The ocean is right there, and I mean right there. There's not thong wearing hotties cause they all freeze to death in the water, but the view is nice. Lots of sail boats, lots of girlies jogging along the beach near the babeway (there's a single's safeway, it's great)

good mass transit system, and if you're liberal, forgetabout it, there's naked peace protesting, animal loving, dream catching, spirit finding, treehugging loonies falling out of trees here. One landed on my car yesterday and asked if I had any "smoke"


Don't offend anybody here though. I accidentally bought a genetically enhanced tomato from Trader joe's and greenpeace keyed my car and kicked me in the stomach.

seriously, I love it here, and there are 20 or so card clubs in the area.

[Trefo]

There's only one place to go and that has to be Vegas....
You can go to Southern Cali on vacation but Sin City cmon, there's no choice!

[Dynasty]

I'm not saying it's better than CA- just that it's excellent.

[Homer]

OK badbeetz I know you weren't trying to convince me to move out there, but I'm coming anyway. Sounds about a million times better than the snow and ice and freezing temperatures and lack of beaches and lack of cardrooms and lack of sexy women here in PA.....

-- Homer

[D.J.]

From what I saw last year, the Bellagio, Mirage, and of course the Horse shoe picked up during the wsop, you couldn't tell too much w/ Bellagio and Mirage on the weekends, but there seemed to be more games during the week than usual. That's also when I saw the huge live games being spread everywhere like the PLO game at Bellagio w/ 200-400 blinds, Horseshoe also spread more games than usual. Also, about compton, I never said that it was a country club, but I think it's cleaned up a lot the past 5 yrs or so, besides, I don't think this guy is going to move out here so he can live in compton anyway.

-D.J.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi D.J.
Thanks for the info. Guess I'm lame. I never noticed all that much extra activity at Mirage/Bellagio in April when I was living there.

As for Compton, I agree. He's probably not going to live there. But a similar parallel in my life. When I built a house in Royal Palm Beach, Fl. (middle class houses on acreage, despite it's name) I had 5 break ins. Finally caught someone. Couple of black crack dealers stole a car and parked it in my garage while I was living in Tampa for a while contracting.

How's that like Compton... well Northlake Blvd was the conduit into Royal Palm Beach... going right by "Riviera Beach"... Used to be the north border of the bad area was "Silver Beach Road"... but it's crept northward all the way to PGA Blvd. No wonder PGA National HQ wants to move.

Here's the demographics for Riviera Beach, Royal Palm, US Avg. *Notice any glaring correlations???*

<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr>CRIME
Riviera Royal Palm US Avg.
Beach Beach
&gt;
Violent crime 1,839.5 386.2 446.1
Property crime 12,702.4 4,752.6 4,162.2
&gt;
CATEGORIES
crimes per 100,000 pop.
Murder 16.4 0.0 3.9
Rape 32.8 41.2 32.8
Robbery 719.4 41.2 116.3
Assault 1,070.9 303.8 293.0
Burglary 3,895.8 1,658.0 761.4
Larcency 5,466.0 2,481.8 3,037.8
Auto theft 3,340.7 612.7 361.8
&gt;
RACE
White 27.2% 87.6% 81.8%
Black 70.8% 9.4% 10.4%
Asian 1.0% 1.7% 3.6%
Amer. Indian 0.2% 0.2% 0.8%
Other 0.8% 1.1% 3.5%
Hispanic 4.7% 11.6% 11.0%</pre><hr>

Point is, folks from areas like this don't just stay in those areas, the move around to all the surrounding areas.

So if the casino is near these kinds of places, you are going to be affected. At least that's my experience.

Sincerely,
AA

[raptor]

OK, we have obviously made it clear where I DO NOT want to live, the question is? where DO I want to look? It seems to be clear that I will have to commute to get to a decent location. It does not matter how good the action is, if your vehicle or place is getting broken into. I have never really been that crazy about apartment complexes, I would prefer to find an apartment over a business, or something like that. That might not be easily done, but that would be my first choice. Can anybody give me an idea what areas I will want to start my search? Again, thanks for all the input that everybody is giving on this!!

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Bad Beetz,
What areas are the best casinos in? I'd like to check the demographics of those areas as I've done in other spots in this thread.

By the way, what exactly is the BabeWay?

Lastly, is that clown Steve Wolford still a news anchor out there? Didn't think to much of him when he was on the social scene down in florida. Trashed a few gals I thought highly off. As per the norm with celebs, no one had the guts to call him on the carpet about it except me.

Sincerely,
AA

[ChipWrecked]

I live near Sacramento, but as a semi-regular visitor to the Bay, I'm going to guess he means the beach trail along Chrissy (sp?) Field from approx. Fisherman's Wharf to the Golden Gate Bridge. This is a recently reclaimed wasteland that provides killer sightseeing... and I don't mean just the buildings, water and mountains.

[bad beetz]

Babeway is a safeway near the marina in San Francisco. Most women there are single and in high heels and business suits. I don't get it either, but it's supposedly notorius for singles, although I've never gotten lucky there.

There are casino's everywhere, but you can find about 5 in south san francisco and San Jose. Those would be Artichoke Joe's in San Bruno, Lucky Chances in Colma, Bay 101 and Garden City in San Jose. I used to live in the city but now I live in a much more conservative blue collar town of Rohnert Park, where the only local cardroom is in Petaluma 2 miles away and is called Sonoma Joes. There's not much money to be made there but it does have a nice bar and food and, uhm, flavorful locals.

The bay has good food and culture. The cost of living is expensive as all hell, but then again, so is LA. You're cost of living will be much, much lower in nevada, but hey, there's a reason it's really expensive to live in a place, and that's because everyone else wants to live there too. If you think supply and demand doesn't affect apply to cost of living you're wrong.

i don't really understand you're motives. It doesn't sound like you're retiring, did you get laid off? you sound pretty free as far as things tying you down.

Appartments are brutal in San Fran. If you live by yourself it's going to cost you a G minimum. way north you can get a little better deal. Accross the bay in berkeley and oakland you can get better deals two, but they sometimes come with complementary stabbings.

If you're so free, get in your car and drive to each of the three places. While you're there, play some cards. figure it out for yourself.

I lived in Chicago for 10 years and I like it here better.
The winter doesn't sling you around by your balls for nine months and the women here can't bench press you.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Raptor,
Here's a link to LA maps that name places like Compton and Commerce, Bell Gardens etc.

http://www.tortowheatonresearch.com/maps/industrial/ilangel.pdf

Use that along with the link to "Best Places" to get some data on property values, demo's, crime rates, etc.

http://www.bestplaces.net/html/citycompare.asp

Sincerely,
AA

[raptor]

My situation? OK, here it is. Male, mid 40s, non drinker, smoker, or drug user. Playing as a full time job for several years, Have no "leaks". No vices,( do young oriental girls count? ) Live in Mid-West, make most of my living off of riverboats, and make a lot of the major tourneys. After 6 years of marriage, my wife decided to go back to college to get her phd in engineering. ran into a brick wall with Calculus, started having panic attacks, ended up in "shrinks" office. Doc stuck her on drugs, and within a year and a half, I ended up living with a complete stranger! 6 years without so much as an argument, and I got a divorce for a Christmas present! The only reason I had not made the move out West before, was because she has all of her family here, ( who I also get along with great-- even now ) but now is obviously the time to hit the road. So I am coming with little baggage,( seriously ) and bankroll will be tight to begin with because of divorce. The situation leaves a lot to be desired, but I am at that age where, if I do not do this now, I never will, and that is not acceptable! Have been a survivor my whole life, left home at 17, with $ 47.00, and have never been back. What is it they say? " Whatever doesn't kill you- just makes you stronger! " So it is time for warmer weather, and hopefully warmer women!

[M2d]

I heard that the games there have picked up some in the past few years. I used to play there a little a few years go when it was under different management (and so was I-previous job)
Speaking of flavorful locals, does Bobby Sissa still play in that room? as I recall, he was a rich pig farmer/action junkie. His favorite move was re-raising blind from outside the doorway as he got in his last few puffs on his cig.

[bad beetz]

don't know him

I played last night and it was a rock garden, which was ashame, because it was my buddy's introduction to public poker (I covered half his action to boot, stupid me)

[bad beetz]

holy sh*t.

you'll be travelling so light you don't really need to "pick" one, you can try them all out.

Sorry things weren't better, but when life hands you lemons.. lemonade, whatever.

I'm about to get laid off here and I'm thinking the same thing you are, but I don't know if I can make it professionally but you apparently have logged enough time to know you're good enough.

The thing that would be worst is if you caught an awful run and your bankroll dried up and you were up sh*t creek. But, being straightlaced as you are, you can live pretty cheap. cigarettes, booze, drugs, not only cost money they cost you money in other ways.

Sounds like all you need is food and a place to live. Too bad you didn't get out here earlier, in CA, if you live in a shelter you get $600 cash a month, which recently changed to $80. That's probably a little too hard core anyway

good luck to you, that must be exciting and painful and terrifying at the same time.

[snakehead]

there are high rises in downtown la that have secure parking and are very safe. only about 15 minutes from the commerce. up the road another 5 minutes is glendale. south on the 5 you can find more suburban type living in orange county, but plan on a longer commute.

[raptor]

All I am bring are my clothes, poker library,( have to keep my priorities straight ), and my tempur-pedic matress !!

[raptor]

I guess I have been to Vegas a couple dozen times, and at night it it the greatest place on earth, IMO, but during the day it really isn't that great, and you have to remember that I am talking about LIVING there, not just playing poker! I have not been to So Cal, since I was six years old, so that is why I am trying to get as much info as possiible on lifestyle out there. You can never have too much info!

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Bad Beetz,
No I'm not laid off, nor foot loose and fancy free. However, I'm always considering how to better my situation. I want to be somewhere where it's warm... and I can be wealthy! (Join the club right? Amazes me how much of the USA is snow bound some part of the year... geez why didn't we expand southward rather than westward!)

These days I'm in the snow belt, but originally from FL. I'd like to find a place to live that's warmer than the snowbelt, but without the urbanization headaches that go with Miami, LA, etc.

So for me Frisco might be a good middle ground.

However, I think you might be confusing me with the original poster though, who just wanted to know if LA or LV was the better place to be and why.

My part in it was to say that my stay in LV was puntuated with vehicles being stolen and/or vandalized even in a "good" section but that I'd not been to LA. But, that available data on LA appears that it's has it's share of urban problems too.

One poster was "laughing his ass off" about comments about the crime/gang issues in LA. So I posted some objective data to validate that places with demographics like Compton, Oakland, even Riviera Beach have crime rates that are a multiple of the national average. Thus such concerns were not misplaced.

Sincerely,
AA

[bad beetz]

When I moved out here my company paid $13,000 for relocation (back in the tech stock hay day) but anyway, it cost me $340.

I mailed everything I owned UPS, and drove my 2-seater MR2 form Chi-town to San Fran with one of my bigass speakers in the trunk and one in the drivers seat.

When i got here I all I had were clothes, a kick ass stereo, and a cookbook my mom made me and that was it. No poker books though. Got plenty now.

If I were you I'd dump the mattress, doesn't sound like it's worth transporting.

I love traveling light.

[raptor]

Outstanding!! Thanks for the help!!

[J.A.Sucker]

The Bay area is a great place to live and the games are pretty darned good, but probably not as good as LA. However, San Francisco is a truly wonderful city, filled with lots of diversity and great things to do - best of all, it's the size of a postage stamp, so you can walk pretty much everywhere (though slogging up some of those hills gets hairy). The cost of living is without a doubt the highest in the country - LA isn't even close, and this is even after the economy slowed things down here. The Peninsula (especially my home, Palo Alto) is a joke for rent, and prices have come down like 25% or more. Still, you can find an OK 1 BR for 1200 in the city, and less outside of it. The weather is much better in LA or the desert, because it rains for 3 months a year (the other 9 it's great, though).

If you like Asian girls, then there's no contest. LA and the Bay are where you have to be, with the Bay Area the best place in the universe for you, IMO. Seriously.

If I were you, I'd live 3 months in each of them. A month is not enough time to scout the games and (more importantly) to see if this is where you actually want to live. Personally, I would live in San Francisco or in Hermosa/Manhattan Beach (L.A.), depending on what you want. You can always blow up and down I5 to get to the other place for a weekend of poker (I know several people who do this).

As for the talks about crime rates, I find it all paranoid and ridiculous. You are going to be in casinos - the highest danger you will incur is going back and forth from your car when you play. True for Vegas, any club in LA, and the ones in the Bay. The clubs in Cali are generally in financially depressed areas, so they have some problems, but just be smart. Also, don't live in the crappy neighborhoods... simple advice I know, but people don't think about it. For example, San Jose has some very nice neighborhoods and some of the worst ghettos filled with gangs anywhere. Same goes for East Palo Alto - a true slum, but this is less than a mile from a part of Palo Alto with 10 Million dollar homes! I saw an episode of Cops Vegas that showed a good bit of crime, including some dudes rolling around the Excalibur with AK 47's... point is that it's everywhere.

As an aside for AA, I lived in Boulder, CO for four years, and had my car vandalized 2 times and my buddy had his broken into; Boulder is generally considdered one of the best places in the country to live, but sh!t happens everywhere, even in the whitest of towns. Your crime stats reveal little to me - how many people do you know who have been murdered? I suspect that number is somewhere between 0 and 1, and closer to 0. Day to day crime rates are pretty similar all around, and even in bad neighborhoods, your odds of sitting there watching sportscenter and having some gangbanger come in and splatter you brains all over your couch are nill, so I'd worry little about it, if at all. And your discussion about riots in Oakland after the Raiders lost the SB is just painful for me to read. Once again, the sh!t that went down on the Hill EVERY YEAR while I was in Boulder was just as bad as that. So some drunk morons smashed up a McDonalds and crowds had to be dispersed with tear gas in Oak... sounds a whole lot like when a popular coffee shop (Espresso Roma) and the rest of the hill business (except the Sink, thank God), got smashed up when the cops tried to bust up a block party in the Spring of 1997. Or when the Broncos won the Superbowl and Lo Do was a zoo... or the Mall Crawl in Boulder of Halloweens of Yore... or when ANY team wins a championship these days.

FWIW it sounds like I'm slamming Boulder, but I'd personally move there if I were a poker pro and play internet poker high stakes games. It's the greatest place to live in the country, IMO, and someday I'll move back.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.

[bad beetz]

Sucker brings up a point I never thought of. EVERYONE here is asian.

In the card clubs, the menus are in mandarin. So maybe this is the place for you, as gambling is not allowed in China.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Raptor,
I feel for your situation with the wife. Those damn SSRI's etc. What a crock. I'm not a big believer in psycho-pharmacology.

I believe that if your reality sucks, it's reality that needs to be fixed... not taking some drugs to convince yourself all is ok... and oh... then go back to being a good little worker bee.

If ya feel bad, it's for a reason... and it ain't always some "brain chemical imbalance" that no one can measure, let alone decide what "normal" or "in balance" is.

I guess the case that pisses me off the most is putting kids on Ritalin.

Truth is, the god-damned Calc professor should've figured out by now... after teaching how long???... how to make it understandable.

Argh... now I'm really pissed.

As Einstien said... "If you can't explain it to a child you probably don't understand it yourself."

Sincerely,
AA

[raptor]

Gee thanks!!!! It is hard enough trying to choose between vegas and LA, now you go and throw the Bay in the mix!! I had actually briefly considered it, but knew that the COL was even higher than LA. Will probably make it up there to check it out but will probably be either out of my price range or more than I am willing to spend. We will see!!

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi J.A.
Well, let's see, I knew the Teacher in Lake Worth that some kid offed. A few other's too, that weren't so high profile like my bosses sister that was just murdered. And then there was one of my sister's boyfriends. That's 3. So your read on that was wrong.

Paranoid and rediculous my *ss. I've been the victim of 10's of thousands of dollars worth of property crimes at the very least. Here's the list:

1. My former home in Royal Palm broken into. One stereo liberated.
2. One GTA Trans Am vanadalized in a failed theft attempt in LV.
3. On Honda motorbike stolen in LV
4. One Jet Ski first vandalized at the marina it was stored at in Juno Beach Florida, then later completely stolen in Royal Palm.
5. A rehab home in Lake Worth Florida I was working on... on microwave stolen and the kitchen window broken.

The stats are clear to me High Density = Crime. Low income = Crime. Some other correlations seem evident as well.

When Barry Grunow got shot down in Lake Worth (being a teacher in an low income area I might add), a bunch of folks didn't go down and trash that kid's neighborhood, did they?

Yes, Boulder is no great place either. Damn rape artist sports players over there on "The Hill" and then of course there's Columbine and the "Jon Benet Ramsey" thing. You'll hear no defense of any metropolis by me. High population density = high friction = high crime rate.

The answer as always is, "You gotta find a way to get rich enough to be where the problems aren't". But then the system ain't engineered to let you is it?

Anyway, as you point out, there are sucky people just about everywhere. But I can't believe the multiples higher crime rates I gave in the tables didn't jump out at you.

Now as you yourself point out, the CA clubs are in financially depressed areas. Go back to "Best Places" and scan for depressed areas and check the rates. See any correlation.

As stated earlier, I agree, everywhere has sucky people. Hell Phil Spector apparently just whacked some gal.

But... certain indicators increase the probability... something Poker Players should understand... Paired door card in Stud... higher possibility of trips... and so forth.

So yes, every area has some crime rate, but being in some places increases the probability it will happen to you.

Anyway, no slams intended. Just discussing what seem like self evident facts to me.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Raptor,
Somewhere in all these posts I posted a link to an LA map with the various suburbs named. Take a look at it.

Anyway, J.A. Sucker has a good point. Check all three areas out for yourself if you can.

Even though I focus on crime rates, population density etc. You may not have the same opinions as myself or anyone else here.

Personally, if I knew SoCal was like the "Franky Vali, Annette Funacello, Beach Boys" California that I dreamed about when I was a kid, there'd be no question.

But that CA died years ago, or may never have existed at all!

Sincerely,
AA

[raptor]

AA: Thanks, it really is a bad situation. How many people can say they really have a really good marriage? Not many. Well for six years we did, and I am not the easiest person in the world to get along with, and I am in a business than not many women would put up with. Believe me, to have that go bad is no fun. She was pretty much a straight A student before calculus, and had really never failed at anything she had tried, and it really messed her head up. She might have made it through that but once her doc got her on the drugs, it was all downhill. I wish I had the time and money to sue the B*tch. I would even agree to give all the money to charity, I just want to get her license removed, because I can't help wondering how many other marriages she has wrecked, or how many more she will! Oh well, the last thing you guys want to hear about are my troubles, i just want to get moved and try to start over. If I meet any of you, and do not make a great first impression, I will apologize in advance. I admit I am not at my friendliest right now. NOTE; Anybody who anticipates being able to take advantage of my "situation" while at the "tables" - please - make my day!!!

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Raptor,
I wouldn't want to take advantage of your situation. I'd really tell you to not play when you are feeling this situation, plain and simple.

Unless, of course, being pissed makes you play better... then get in and kick some butt.

Bottom line is, I agree. Losing a love sucks. And I believe SSRI et. al. are way over used and way to many people get labels from the profession that pushes them, that is correct. The ritalin thing particularly rankles me because it is kids. I suppose some folks get help, but I'm really skeptical about what goes on.

So you'll get no attacks from me based on your situation. It's just not in my construction. It's one thing to exploit a players legitimate poker weaknesses, quite another to exploit thier personal tragedies.

Sincerely,
AA

[ChipWrecked]

Accross the bay in berkeley and oakland you can get better deals two, but they sometimes come with complementary stabbings.

Heh heh. Not long after I moved out West I was sent to downtown Oakland for a work project. I came through Berkeley on San Pablo Ave. and knew I had crossed into Oakland when I saw a billboard that read, "Do You Know Who Murdered Me?"

[raptor]

AA; For most people, I would agree with you about not playing while this is on my mind. Unfortunately, I have found from past experience that the only way to get over one love, is to find another, and I tend to go a long time between relationships. Since I do not drink, smoke, party or anything, I do not get out to many places where you meet people. In fact , it has been so long since I have looked for a partner, that I am not sure where to start. Plus, it is not like I am in a profession that women flock to! Oh well, on the plus side, I AM the type, where, once I get to the table, I can put everything out of my mind except the game! Besides, I can't just sit around and wait for things to get better. Anyways, thanks for the moral support!

[JTG51]

We're told it's a dry heat. It's a hot heat.

I've always felt the same way. I can't stand hot weather. I've got to admit though, as I look out the window at my car (or at least what I think is my car) and see snow almost up to the roof, that hot heat is sounding pretty darn good to me.

[Matt Flynn]

raptor,

I've got nothing to do with the site, but for dating match.com is a no-brainer. I've been to two weddings spawned from that site (and there should've been a third) and know several active couples as well.

Matt

[ChipWrecked]

match.com is a no-brainer

Heh heh. I met my wife on it. The Bay Area women on there are (um, were I mean)smokin'..... /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

Best of luck to you.

[Duke]

And have obviously never been to Summerlin.

If you live any nearer the strip than about Fort Apache/Rampart, then you're right. However, you can get out a bit and it's a nice, QUIET, place. Or, as was pointed out, you can go the other way to Green Valley and it's not half bad there either.

If only the damn homeowners associations didn't have as much power as the US Military with regard to minding your business, it would be the ideal place to live. Plus, nothing competes with 99 cent breakfasts at the Suncoast.

I have lived in LA as well, and it's a horrible checkerboard city (save Irvine and farther to the south) with good areas surrounded by horrible areas. It's also in a state that is broke, despite ridiculously high state taxes (that's what liberals do).

So if you want to bag on Vegas, go right ahead, but despite having the most horrible regular players in the world, LA is not without it's own shortcomings.

~D