Flopped Flush Gets Reraised

[glb]

1/2 No Limit B&M 11 Handed


UTG1 calls $2
MP1 calls $2
CO calls $2
Button calls $2 (Villian $300)
Hero ($200) in SB with 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif calls $1
BB Checks

Flop 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif ($12)

Hero checks
BB checks
MP1 checks
CO bets $7
Villian calls $7
Hero raises to $25
BB folds
MP1 folds
CO folds
Button raises to $50

Hero?

It was early in the game and it was the first time I played with Villian. So, no real read.

[amoeba]

cold call then minraise on your raise seems to indicate higher flush.

[djoyce003]

tricky one. This could easily be top pair trying to protect against a naked diamond. Flush over flush is not all that common so i'm thinking you are probably ahead, but any more diamonds sink you. I think villain has a set or the Ace of diamonds. Problem is you are either slightly ahead, or WAY behind, because if he has the diamond flush, its gotta be better than yours. Good example of why you probably shouldn't play 9 3 suited /images/graemlins/grin.gif

I'm really undecided on what to do here, but I think i'd call and bet the pot on any non-diamond turn. If he raises, then you pretty much have to call because of stack sizes. If he has me beat then he's probably getting my money here. Maybe i'm reckless though, i'd love to here some other thoughts here.

[Go_Blue88]

i don't think that villian would play a set like this...that doesn't make sense to me; i think he'd raise the initial better if he had one, and the min reraise would be pretty dumb. the more i think about it the more i think he has a flush. he just called the initial bet, which could mean that he wanted other callers, and he minreraised your bet b/c he doesn't seem to be worried about a diamond hitting the turn. also, i don't think a hand like Ad 10 would play this way...if he was going to make a play on you i think he'd reraise bigger. this looks like a flush; i don't think you should reraise him. however, i don't really think that you should fold either b/c you have no read on him yet. i think calling is the best play. call and see what villian does on the turn; maybe you'll be able to get a better read...tough hand.

[Stronghands]

I'm interested to know how this hand-played out. I find spots like this (weak flush OOP facing a small re-raise) to be quite challenging.

If I were in your spot, I probably would lead at that pot, rather than going for a check-raise. If you do try the check-raise, I think you need to raise more than $25 - something like $30 to $35 seems right. My main goal would be to win the pot on the flop.

Given that you were min-raised after the call from the button, I DON'T think you're looking at the made nut-flush. I think the nut flush calls to the river and then makes a raise, since villain likely would put you on a draw or a weaker flush. I do think there's a strong chance you're facing the lone Ad, maybe with a pair, OR a "monster draw" like QJ with a diamond.

After the min-raise, I'd choose one of two paths: (1) I call and push any non-diamond, non-pairing turn (2) I call and try to play a cheap pot by checking it down, probably calling a decent bet on the end as long as no 4 flush comes.

I'd take the first line if my impression were the min-raise is a feeler-type bet, or a set up to take the pot away, and that I had reasonable fold equity. I'd take the second line if I thought I had marginal fold equity (say if I felt like the lone Ad were calling with a pair).

[glb]

I put him on a set or A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 10. I reraised all in and he called and showed A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I could have easily gotten away from this hand with deeper stacks. I don't know if it would be possible (for me, atleast) to get away from this with only $200.

[jjacky]

how do you like this line? call and push all in on the turn if no diamond hits.

if he has a lone A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif you save the money if he makes the nuts on the turn. if he has a higher flush you have some chance to keep your money. if he has the unlikely set, it sucks.

[Tuben]

I think he should play 93s in the sb.

[fuzzbox]

[ QUOTE ]
how do you like this line? call and push all in on the turn if no diamond hits.

if he has a lone A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif you save the money if he makes the nuts on the turn. if he has a higher flush you have some chance to keep your money. if he has the unlikely set, it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats no good - if he will get it in now with the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif then push it now - he has only 7 outs - so we are a monster fave right now (if he has the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif).

[fuzzbox]

Tough spot - but he almost certainly has the nuts. I dont like to check-raise as it makes everybody 100% certain what you have and they can get away from worse hands (like 2-pair, bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif) easily. I like to lead at this and see what happens. If he raises me after I lead, then I lose all my money to his A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, but if he calls to see a turn, I get away if its a /images/graemlins/diamond.gif and try to figure out what to do if he minraises me.

The action, as it panned out - calling a bet, and then reraising (and minreraising no less) a check-raise just exudes so much strength that it must be the nuts (or maybe a K-flush).

[fuzzbox]

[ QUOTE ]
I put him on a set or A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 10. I reraised all in and he called and showed A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif. I could have easily gotten away from this hand with deeper stacks. I don't know if it would be possible (for me, atleast) to get away from this with only $200.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has the naked A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif then he is much more likely to raise the LP bet, than he is to minraise your checkraise (after a bet and a call), as he now must be sure that you have a hand that you are not likely to laydown.

[jjacky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how do you like this line? call and push all in on the turn if no diamond hits.

if he has a lone A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif you save the money if he makes the nuts on the turn. if he has a higher flush you have some chance to keep your money. if he has the unlikely set, it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats no good - if he will get it in now with the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif then push it now - he has only 7 outs - so we are a monster fave right now (if he has the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif).

[/ QUOTE ]

to clarify my reasoning:
if we are afraid that our equity is less than 50%, we can call and if the turn is no diamond, our equity goes up automatically. maybe it is sufficent to push it in then.

an example:
if we assume villain has a higher flush 35% of the time and the naked A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 65%, we have about 45% equity on the flop but 52% on the turn, assuming a blanc hits.

[fuzzbox]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
how do you like this line? call and push all in on the turn if no diamond hits.

if he has a lone A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif you save the money if he makes the nuts on the turn. if he has a higher flush you have some chance to keep your money. if he has the unlikely set, it sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats no good - if he will get it in now with the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif then push it now - he has only 7 outs - so we are a monster fave right now (if he has the bare A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif).

[/ QUOTE ]

to clarify my reasoning:
if we are afraid that our equity is less than 50%, we can call and if the turn is no diamond, our equity goes up automatically. maybe it is sufficent to push it in then.

an example:
if we assume villain has a higher flush 35% of the time and the naked A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 65%, we have about 45% equity on the flop but 52% on the turn, assuming a blanc hits.

[/ QUOTE ]

If we wait until the turn and then open push - naked A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif will often fold, and we will always be called by a better made flush.

Waiting until the turn is often good in cases where you have something like top pair, and get raised on the flop. You suspect that the other guy is on a draw. Here you can see a turn card. If it is a blank - you can push (as you have decided that he is drawing), while if it makes the draw then you can check/fold (as he was either drawing and got there, or was ahead all the time). Villains can often have close to 50/50 chances of beating us if we get it all in on the flop and they are drawing, so we take a turn and try to lean the odds in our favour before committing our chips.

In this case if villain is drawing he has either 7 outs (A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, or 7 now and 10 on river (set). We dont mind him gambling now, because if he is behind is has max 33% equity. If he is ahead, well thats just tough for us - but we prefer the money in now, in case he folds the turn push. Also villain is much more likely to gamble it up with naked A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the flop, than the turn.

[Maulik]

when you flop it, i'm trying to get all my money in on the flop and see if he will follow. if he's outflopped me, he's getting my stack and i'll rebuy.

[glb]

So, it sounds like this is one of those unfortunate situations where I just have to pay him off, unless the stacks are deeper.

I didn't plan to check raise here. I planned to check-call, and lead the turn if the it was a blank. The $7 bet was extremely small for this game (even with the small pot). So, I raised to build the pot, and push the turn. The reraise just put me in a bad spot.