Big stack bubble battle - have to call, right?

[DJ Sensei]

Myself and the other bigstack have been picking on the shorties a lot recently, he is a solid player who knows what he's doing around the bubble. I've stolen many of his blinds recently though (he complained that I "always have a hand when he's in the blind"), and it looks like he's taking a stand here. I don't think theres much chance he's straight bluffing me, but he could be using his slightly bigger stack as leverage against me on the bubble. Also, as far as the preflop raise goes, it was my way of saying "I'll take out the short stack".

Seat 2: Hero [K /images/graemlins/spade.gif,8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif] ($4,876 in chips)
Seat 3: Little pussy stack ($542 in chips)
Seat 4: Other bigstack ($6,696 in chips)
Seat 10: Doesn't want any trouble ($2,886 in chips)

Little pussy stack posts SB ($150)
Other bigstack posts BB ($300).

PRE-FLOP
No trouble folds, Hero bets $700, Little pussy stack folds, Other bigstack calls $400.

FLOP [board cards 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,Q /images/graemlins/club.gif,K /images/graemlins/heart.gif ] Pot = t1650.
Other bigstack checks, Hero bets $1,200, Other bigstack bets $2,400, Hero calls $1,200.

TURN [board cards 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,Q /images/graemlins/club.gif,K /images/graemlins/heart.gif,7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif ] Pot = t6450.
Other bigstack bets $1,776 (putting Hero all in)

...

[pergesu]

Folding kings up is atrocious. YOu shoudly shoot yourself i you htouhgt youf oflind thang. hola

[Big Limpin']

[ QUOTE ]
FLOP [board cards 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif,Q /images/graemlins/club.gif,K /images/graemlins/heart.gif ] Pot = t1650.
Other bigstack checks, Hero bets $1,200, Other bigstack bets $2,400, Hero calls $1,200.


[/ QUOTE ]

Just push the rest in here

[DJ Sensei]

In retrospect, I agree. Nothing i can see on the turn to stop me from pushing the rest in, unless I'm as pussy as my stack would then be. I guess i was just surprised to see him finally fighting back and wasnt thinking "oh, my hand is very good, lets get it all in now before it can get outdrawn or something"

[Big Limpin']

Yeah, its like, 5% of the time you lose this and of course your tourney is over, but the rest of the time you now have huge stack and can cold-crush the rest of the way. Top and bottom pairs is plenty hand for me to get broke here on, im not going anywhere. I just try to make sure i get all his money. Or, in this case, full double.

Hey, you *did* win this hand, right?

BL'

[DJ Sensei]

Of course I didn't win the hand. I called all in, he flipped K9 and rivered a 9 to put me out in 4th (I was *only* a 93% favorite though).

not that i'm here to whine about it, but it does seem like a confrontation between two big stacks on the bubble does happen often enough to make it a worthwhile discussion. Once you're in a big pot (and have a big hand like kings up) it seems like its better to just take it to the felt, win the hand (93% of the time, of course), and crush the last two shorties for the win rather than play it safe (making winning a lot tougher, but essentially guaranteeing ITM).

[2callzU]

[ QUOTE ]
Myself and the other bigstack have been picking on the shorties a lot recently, he is a solid player who knows what he's doing around the bubble. I've stolen many of his blinds recently though (he complained that I "always have a hand when he's in the blind"), and it looks like he's taking a stand here. I don't think theres much chance he's straight bluffing me, but he could be using his slightly bigger stack as leverage against me on the bubble. Also, as far as the preflop raise goes, it was my way of saying "I'll take out the short stack".

Seat 2: Hero [K ,8 ] ($4,876 in chips)
Seat 3: Little pussy stack ($542 in chips)
Seat 4: Other bigstack ($6,696 in chips)
Seat 10: Doesn't want any trouble ($2,886 in chips)

Little pussy stack posts SB ($150)
Other bigstack posts BB ($300).

PRE-FLOP
No trouble folds, Hero bets $700, Little pussy stack folds, Other bigstack calls $400.

FLOP [board cards 8 ,Q ,K ] Pot = t1650.
Other bigstack checks, Hero bets $1,200, Other bigstack bets $2,400, Hero calls $1,200.

TURN [board cards 8 ,Q ,K ,7 ] Pot = t6450.
Other bigstack bets $1,776 (putting Hero all in)


[/ QUOTE ] To avoid all of this, just push it in preflop. It would definately be -EV for BB to call you and the SB still surrenders his blinds. I think you would have collected in this situation with a push. Peace.

[willbb99]

I don't think you should push preflop because then you are only getting called by monster hands. A standard raise would probably be better.