ABC = Lazy

[QTip]

I've been doing quite a bit of thinking lately about "ABC Poker", multi-tabling, PF stats etc. Since I've been 8-tabling 2/4 now (only 52K hands into it), I've found myself at 16.5/9.5. We can go on and on about PF stats and what's optimum, but, personally, for the 2/4 game, I've always felt like 18-19,11-12 is about right.

Chief made a post a couple of weeks ago about ABC poker and how he hates the term. I didn't really get what he was so pissed about, so I asked him. He responded by saying that he thinks it's insulting to those of us who work hard on improving our game. I think I see what he's saying.

Over the last 4-5K hands, I've really focused on played the game much more than just playing the cards...and what do you know, 18.5/11.5. Sure...small sample could have been getting better cards...whatever.

All I'm saying is that multi-tabling for a long time, it's very easy to just get into a comfort zone and just push giant edges and not get into the finer, more challenging parts of the game that really keep it interesting and force you to think and progress.

So...join me in not be being lazy anymore if you're finding yourself there.

[Alpha13]

Well, if "being lazy" allows you to put more hours in (since your playing ABC) then it might not be as bad as you think.

[TiltsMcFabulous]

My VPIP over 175k hands is about 23 at 2-4 and 3-6, and I am doing fine. Made me a better player I hope.

~ Tilts

[jskills]

Follow King Yao's guide to starting hands and you'll find your stats will end up somewhere in the area you're saying. Why? Because it very much takes into consideration (not just the card you're dealt), but your position and number of limpers. This was a bit of a wakeup for me since there are several hands I find myself just tossing in almost any situtation that are playable.

I only mention this because you refer to VPIP and PFR.

I don't even know what "ABC Poker" is really. There are so many of the fine points on what to do in given situation, I can't even imagine a concensus who agree if something were "ABC Poker" or not ...

[stokken]

Could u please link to King Yao`s rec?

[baronzeus]

If you're 8 tabling, I think you should keep your VPIP < 18, unless you are very, very confident in your postflop play at 8 tables.

[SmileyEH]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're 8 tabling, I think you should keep your VPIP < 18, unless you are very, very confident in your postflop play at 8 tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your postflop play will get better if you put yourself in more marginal situations.

-SmileyEH

[JoshuaD]

[ QUOTE ]
If you're 8 tabling, I think you should keep your VPIP < 18, unless you are very, very confident in your postflop play at 8 tables.

[/ QUOTE ]

The hard decisions of yesterday are the ABC decisions of today. Push yourself.

[Jake (The Snake)]

Hey Qtip,

You make a really good point and focus is something I've been working on myself. My VPIP is normally 16.5 and I'd also like to get it up. For me, the spot where I usually miss that extra 2% comes from missing isolation raises.

I know this is a sloppy way to think, but I figure that on average I should find 2 hands out of a 100 block that I should have played but didn't. So I went back and checked my history and found these two folds.

1. MP (72,16) openlimps. Folded to me in CO with A7o. I fold.

2. LMP (31, 15 raised A3s UTG+1) openraises. I fold KQo 2 off button.

First is an easy raise right? How about #2?

Sometimes there are too many things going on when we multi-table, but more often than not we are just being lazy like you say.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
Could u please link to King Yao`s rec?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's talking about this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0935926259/qid=1120725295/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-1375528-5389647?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) . AFAIK the starting hand chart is not online anywhere. the book is worth the money for this and much more.

[jason_t]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Qtip,

You make a really good point and focus is something I've been working on myself. My VPIP is normally 16.5 and I'd also like to get it up. For me, the spot where I usually miss that extra 2% comes from missing isolation raises.

I know this is a sloppy way to think, but I figure that on average I should find 2 hands out of a 100 block that I should have played but didn't. So I went back and checked my history and found these two folds.

1. MP (72,16) openlimps. Folded to me in CO with A7o. I fold.

2. LMP (31, 15 raised A3s UTG+1) openraises. I fold KQo 2 off button.

First is an easy raise right? How about #2?

Sometimes there are too many things going on when we multi-table, but more often than not we are just being lazy like you say.

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to tell us more about the table before we can talk about what is correct here.

[Jake (The Snake)]

1. Openlimper was decent postflop. Capable of folding when behind. Button and SB were TAGS. BB was fish.

2. LMP was bad postflop. Overaggressive with draws and saw lots of showdowns. CO and Button were LA-P. SB fish, BB TAG.

Anything else I should know/be paying attention to?

[jskills]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Could u please link to King Yao`s rec?

[/ QUOTE ]

he's talking about this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0935926259/qid=1120725295/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/002-1375528-5389647?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) . AFAIK the starting hand chart is not online anywhere. the book is worth the money for this and much more.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the book link. That's the one I was talking about. Great take on looking at odds and pot equity.

[jskills]

In hand #1, the King Yao book advocates isolation raising. I'd usually fold in that spot myself, but have been recently exploring the possibilities of this play against loose limpers.

[Colonel Kataffy]

I'd be a little worried about not being able to Knock the BB out of the first hand preflop.

[thejameser]

i have also experienced a correlation between adding tables and decreasing my VPIP and PFR%. too small a sample for me to declare anything beyond variance....yet.

[Colonel Kataffy]

Qtip, the total volume of hands your grinding out is impressive. I'm just curious, how long do you usually play each session? I know my game deteriorates dramatically after about 3 hours of 8 tabling the 2/4. I used to try to play 2 four hour sessions per day but I tend to aquire more calling station tendancies the longer i play. Experience anything similar?

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Qtip, the total volume of hands your grinding out is impressive. I'm just curious, how long do you usually play each session? I know my game deteriorates dramatically after about 3 hours of 8 tabling the 2/4. I used to try to play 2 four hour sessions per day but I tend to aquire more calling station tendancies the longer i play. Experience anything similar?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've not (perceived at least) experienced this yet. I've played a 9 hour session of 8-tabling, and I think I was fine.

I'm probably keeping all my sessions under 6 hours from here on out though. Not for any reason in specific outside of just breaking up the sessions to hang out and do things with my family.

[QTip]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, if "being lazy" allows you to put more hours in (since your playing ABC) then it might not be as bad as you think.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is the case.