$10+$1 Party SnG - 1st hand [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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JayKon

07-07-2005, 01:13 AM

FIrst hand, anyone play this different?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
Hero (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold,
UTG+1 raises to t70,
1 fold,
Hero raises to t200,
1 fold,
MP3 raises to t500,
4 folds,
UTG+1 raises to t800,
Hero calls [t600],
MP3 calls [t300].

Pot t2425

Freudian

07-07-2005, 01:16 AM

Nope. You probably lose often but not often enough to make folding an option.

If it was at a higher limit I think you can safely fold though. And if I am MP3 you should definately fold because there are realistically only two hands I can have there.

lastchance

07-07-2005, 01:57 AM

MP3 only has t300. He has to call. I don't think you can fold this either. Higher buy-in, and I'm really thinking about this.

AndrewB

07-07-2005, 02:00 AM

I like your re-raise, but after the rest of the action I think it's a pretty easy laydown. The only hands I call with there are KK and AA.

lastchance

07-07-2005, 02:01 AM

Clearly, you don't play at the $11's.

microbet

07-07-2005, 02:02 AM

A lot more data than I have would be useful here, but as it is I would call in a $22 and below and fold in a $33 and above.

Knowing the villians could change this of course.

handsome

07-07-2005, 03:21 AM

omfg QQ 3-way all-in on the first hand of a 10+1? SWEEEEEEET

Pokerprowannabe

07-07-2005, 04:12 AM

I can't tell you how many times I have busted out with QQ from some idiot pushing Ax who gets lucky. In fact, just yesterday I busted the first hand with a 3 way all in on the FIRST hand with QQ. You guessed it, QQ, KK, AA.

Kings hit a set and tripled up eventually going on to win it all. Must be nice to triple up on the first hand.

DJ Sensei

07-07-2005, 04:32 AM

MP3 has left himself only 300 chips, he's not folding. It definitely looks he's trying to get more action on a good hand, and given previous raise and reraise, its gotta be AA or KK, unless he's a total fish.

Sure the pot is big, but theres very little chance that you're ahead here, and you're probably up against an overpair (or two, not that the second one matters much). Without a read that the villains are fish, i'm folding. I havent played the party 10+1's in a while though, so who knows. I am curious as to how it turned out.

(on a side note, this is the kind of hand that pokerprophecy might be very worthwhile for)

2callzU

07-07-2005, 05:52 AM

I wouldn't have reraised intitially with queens. Kings or Aces definately, but not queens. Had you not reraised you would have been able to see a flop for cheaper (probably 2x the initial raisers' bet) and at least if a scare card A or K came up, folding would have been much easier. Although there is the possibilty that rags would flop in which case you'd be dead but might as well try and save what you can. Afterall, it was the first hand. My thoughts. Peace.

The Yugoslavian

07-07-2005, 07:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot more data than I have would be useful here, but as it is I would call in a $22 and below and fold in a $33 and above.

Knowing the villians could change this of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you just put in a 1/4 of your stack.....I'm not folding this preflop after doing that in a $33 without some sorta readish type thing.

Yugoslav

Freudian

07-07-2005, 08:31 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A lot more data than I have would be useful here, but as it is I would call in a $22 and below and fold in a $33 and above.

Knowing the villians could change this of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you just put in a 1/4 of your stack.....I'm not folding this preflop after doing that in a $33 without some sorta readish type thing.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

If MP3 is somewhat solid, the only thing the re-reraise to 500 can mean is that he has a monster he like to milk here. It even means that often at the $11s and $22s.

I doubt I would lay it down at $11s but I would often be able to lay it down at the $22s.

wulfheir

07-07-2005, 08:50 AM

Word, I saw a guy go all-in with A6o first hand 10+1 yesterday.

Double Down

07-07-2005, 09:11 AM

I disagree. With a vulnerable hand like qq, you don't want more than 2 people in the pot. i reraise just enough to isolate and then if the original raiser reraises for most or all of my chips, i'd fold because he most likely has kk, aa, or ak. Of course, this is my strategy for the 100 and 200s.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 10:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
MP3 only has t300. He has to call. I don't think you can fold this either. Higher buy-in, and I'm really thinking about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I did, in fact, consider folding to the two raises. In a MTT (past the 3rd level, after most of the rubes have busted) I might have. I will, however, remember this. Thanks.

liucipher

07-07-2005, 10:55 AM

I don't see how you're getting away from this one.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 10:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot more data than I have would be useful here, but as it is I would call in a $22 and below and fold in a $33 and above.

Knowing the villians could change this of course.

[/ QUOTE ]

Since so many people play the $10 SnG, I didn't immediatly recognize either player and hadn't had the change to bring up anyones stats - which wouldn't have mattered as they wern't in my DB yet.

arod15

07-07-2005, 11:00 AM

Id call but only cause its 10+1 and that means nothing to me. Really fold there. No way your queens are good and your not getting the 4-1 you need to make it a good gamble.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 11:01 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have reraised intitially with queens. Kings or Aces definately, but not queens. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

You can't be serious?!?

I'm raising with QQ 90-100% of the time on the first hand of a SnG where I don't immediatly see good players I know. The hand is way +EV!

arod15

07-07-2005, 11:03 AM

Alway reraise with QQ no way you dont. Well if there was already a reraise than id call or go all in well act 10+1 id go all in. 50+5 i call and ask the poker goods for a flop with no k or A so i can move in

junkmail3

07-07-2005, 11:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A lot more data than I have would be useful here, but as it is I would call in a $22 and below and fold in a $33 and above.

...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd play this every time in a $33, and start thinking in the $55s. People play bad, not only at the $11s.

newfant

07-07-2005, 11:30 AM

I'm a weak-tight vag with QQ and ten people still in the game. I would prolly fold this preflop to that raise. I think that goes against the grain of the consensus here, but you're likely to end up in a race here and that doesn't help one make it to the bubble and beyond.

A call is OK, but once you reraise to 200, you are pot committed and must go allin against any reraise. The problem with QQ in level 1 is that you are very likely to end up in a race and may be dominated. Sometimes you will dominate your opponent, but I think that is outweighed by the times you end up in a race or you or dominated.

Just one $22, 10% ROI player's opinion.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
FIrst hand, anyone play this different?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
Hero (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold,
UTG+1 raises to t70,
1 fold,
Hero raises to t200,
1 fold,
MP3 raises to t500,
4 folds,
UTG+1 raises to t800,
Hero calls [t600],
MP3 calls [t300].

Pot t2425

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG+1: A/images/graemlins/heart.gifQ/images/graemlins/heart.gif
MP3: A/images/graemlins/diamond.gifJ/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Preflop:
QQ 62.64%
AQs 20.56%
AJs 13.96%

Flop: T/images/graemlins/club.gif8/images/graemlins/club.gifT/images/graemlins/heart.gif Yea!
QQ 82.83%
AQs 12.88%
AJs 2.44%

Turn: A/images/graemlins/spade.gif WHAT!
River: K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif Chop me up!

Mr. AJs busted in 8th.
Mr. AQs won it after almost getting busted twice and catching lucky rivers. However, once it got headup, I must admit he played well.

mlagoo

07-07-2005, 11:33 AM

[ QUOTE ]
FIrst hand, anyone play this different?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|saw showdown

CO (t800)
Button (t800)
SB (t800)
BB (t800)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t800)
UTG+2 (t800)
Hero (t800)
MP2 (t800)
MP3 (t800)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
1 fold,
UTG+1 raises to t70,
1 fold,
Hero raises to t200,
1 fold,
MP3 raises to t500,
4 folds,
UTG+1 raises to t800,
Hero calls [t600],
MP3 calls [t300].

Pot t2425

[/ QUOTE ]

I call considering its a $11, fully expecting to be shown ATo and 88, see an A on the turn, and fire up another table.

I'm running pretty bad.

tminus

07-07-2005, 11:51 AM

FIRST PLAY:
I certainly wouldnt reraise the first 70 chips...reraising another 8 or so BB is not worth it, what are you going to do if the flop comes with A or K ? Just call and play the flop carefully. The game just started and there's no need to be so heavy handed just yet.

SECOND PLAY: you've already invested 25% of your stack and can now triple up, you gotta call now

mlagoo

07-07-2005, 11:56 AM

not reraising QQ preflop is crazy to me. It's the third best hand in holdem. if you think you have the best hand, you should get some chips out of it. and if you don't think you have the best hand just because of one raise preflop, well, you're playing a bit tight.

If the flop comes with an A or a K, maybe it scares your opponent as well. evaluate it at that point. don't flatcall preflop just because you're afraid of the 30% chance that an ace or a king will flop.

gildwulf

07-07-2005, 12:05 PM

I think I threw up in my mouth when someone said to not raise QQ preflop...and then I threw up again when they said to fold this hand. I was going to say you guys clearly don't play the 10s...but I'm not sure what other level you would play with this line of thinking.

Whoever folds here at low-level SNGs sucks and is giving their money away.

kyro

07-07-2005, 12:09 PM

I'd be tempted to lay it down, but then I'd realize I was at a $11 tourney and not lay it down.

At a $55 I would lay it down though.

downtown

07-07-2005, 12:11 PM

I reraise the initial raiser and call the all-in every time here, with the mid-position weird 3rd raise causing me one-thousandth of a second pause. There is some bad advice in this thread with regard to laying this down from posters who probably play higher. I have played enough $11s to opine with great confidence that I am gonna see Ax, 77-JJ, and even KJ more often than I see AA/KK/AK. Fire up another if you're unlucky here but you're tripling up 1st hand way more than 1/3 of the time with this action.

gildwulf

07-07-2005, 12:13 PM

Posters who play higher limits should especially know that you can't lay this down at a 10+1...

downtown

07-07-2005, 12:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Whoever folds here at low-level SNGs sucks and is giving their money away.

[/ QUOTE ]

To emphasize this point, here's a hand I played yesterday in Level 2 of an $11 with admittedly different action, but IMO with opponents holdings that are more typical than not. And to be fair, I took about 7 seconds to evaluate the whole situation before I called, considering folding because I feared a set, which now seems like it was eternally too long to think about it.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+2 (t1257)
MP1 (t570)
MP2 (t1220)
MP3 (t660)
CO (t785)
Button (t562)
Hero (t682)
BB (t1219)
UTG (t285)
UTG+1 (t760)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
3 folds, MP1 calls t30, 2 folds, CO calls t30, Button calls t30, Hero raises to t130, 1 fold, MP1 calls t100, CO calls t100, Button calls t100.

Flop: (t550) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO bets t655 (All-In), Button calls t432 (All-In), Hero calls t552 (All-In), MP1 folds.

Turn: (t2189) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: (t2189) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: t2189

Results:
Hero has Qh Qs (full house, queens full of fours).
CO has Ah 8s (two pair, eights and fours).
Button has 6h Kd (one pair, fours).
Outcome: Hero wins t2086. CO wins t103.

Uppercut

07-07-2005, 12:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FIRST PLAY:
I certainly wouldnt reraise the first 70 chips...reraising another 8 or so BB is not worth it, what are you going to do if the flop comes with A or K ? Just call and play the flop carefully. The game just started and there's no need to be so heavy handed just yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are forgetting that one of the great benefits of the healthy reraise is that sometimes the original bettor then folds his crappy A8o and you win a nice pot WITHOUT seeing a flop.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 09:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FIRST PLAY:
I certainly wouldnt reraise the first 70 chips...reraising another 8 or so BB is not worth it, what are you going to do if the flop comes with A or K ? Just call and play the flop carefully. The game just started and there's no need to be so heavy handed just yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play at Party? What's your screen name? I would enjoy playing with you.

JayKon

07-07-2005, 09:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Posters who play higher limits should especially know that you can't lay this down at a 10+1...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, if there is one BIG thing I've gotten from this thread is that at higher limits, folding after the two raises behind my raise is a definate posibility. But then, I'm also much more likely to have stats on the other players as well.

gildwulf

07-07-2005, 09:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
FIRST PLAY:
I certainly wouldnt reraise the first 70 chips...reraising another 8 or so BB is not worth it, what are you going to do if the flop comes with A or K ? Just call and play the flop carefully. The game just started and there's no need to be so heavy handed just yet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you play at Party? What's your screen name? I would enjoy playing with you.

[/ QUOTE ]

tminus

07-07-2005, 09:47 PM

yeah, have fun when the flop comes with an overcard and you've already committed half your stack

Sponger15SB

07-07-2005, 09:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Dude, you just put in a 1/4 of your stack.....I'm not folding this preflop after doing that in a $33 without some sorta readish type thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Unless they direct you to a live webcam of themselves playing the hand, I doubt you're gonna get a good read on the first hand.

tminus

07-07-2005, 09:53 PM

nice, you caught trips...great job
tell me how you'd play if they flat-called you're reraise and an ace or king fell on the flop

...playing the remainder of the game with 500 chips would be fun

gildwulf

07-07-2005, 10:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
nice, you caught trips...great job
tell me how you'd play if they flat-called you're reraise and an ace or king fell on the flop

...playing the remainder of the game with 500 chips would be fun

[/ QUOTE ]

You make it sound like he sucked out on the guy who called with K6.

It still baffles me that you refuse to reraise preflop with the 3rd best hand in hold'em. This is a major leak.

tminus

07-08-2005, 09:08 AM

yeah, at level 2 with no reads on any of them ?
thats wise, you should read more junior

gildwulf

07-08-2005, 12:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
yeah, at level 2 with no reads on any of them ?
thats wise, you should read more junior

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter if it's level 1 or level 9, this doesn't change the fact that QQ is the best hand here most of the time at 10+1 buy-in and you should try and get as many chips in as possible.

So you should play like a weak-tight vag because you have no reads?